I thought I would begin this page with the recomendations Alan Ball made here.
Roger Ebert reviews Let the Right One In.
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I thought I would begin this page with the recomendations Alan Ball made here.
Roger Ebert reviews Let the Right One In.
Frenzy, as recommended by TAP here:
And Spellbound, which might prove highly significant for season 4 of True Blood:
Watch Let the Right One In on Amazon:
Let the Right One In (English Subtitled)
Night Watch:
Night Watch (NOCHNOI DOZOR)
Day Watch:
Day Watch
Frenzy:
Frenzy
Psycho:
Psycho (1960)
Unfortunately, Spellbound is not on Amazon’s video on demand and it’s not on Netflix’s instant. Buy it if you can. Here is an interesting analysis of the film:
http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/00/6/spellbound.html
Summary of Spellbound from Wiki:
The Fault… is Not in Our Stars,
But in Ourselves…
- William Shakespeare ”
The film opens with Shakespeare’s proverb, and words on the screen announcing that its purpose is to highlight the virtues of psychoanalysis in banishing mental illness and restoring reason.
Dr. Constance Petersen (Ingrid Bergman) is a psychoanalyst at Green Manors, a mental hospital in Vermont, and is perceived by the other (male) doctors as detached and emotionless. The director of the hospital, Dr. Murchison (Leo G. Carroll), is being forced into retirement, shortly after returning from an absence due to nervous exhaustion. His replacement is the much younger Dr. Anthony Edwardes (Gregory Peck).
Dr. Petersen notices that there is something strange about Dr. Edwardes. He has a peculiar phobia about seeing sets of parallel lines against a white background, first displayed in an inappropriate reaction to seeing a diagram drawn with the tines of a fork on a tablecloth.
Dr. Petersen soon realizes, by comparing handwriting, that this man is an impostor and not the real Dr. Edwardes. He confides to her that he killed Dr. Edwardes and took his place. He suffers from massive amnesia and does not know who he is. Dr. Petersen believes that he is innocent and suffering from a guilt complex.
Ahh, you can watch Spellbound here:
http://stagevu.com/video/kfqpzocmmpsj
Lol, Amazon replaced all of my VOD links with ‘buy’ buttons. Sheesh.
I watched LTROI last night. Really wish I had watched it during the day. It was seriously creepy. Ya, I’m a wuss. Think I’ll watch Night/Day Watch during daylight.
I still haven’t had a chance to watch it. The other day when I should have been watching I got caught up in Downton Abbey. Love that show!
Anyhoo, I’ll try to get to it today so I can discuss it. I’m taking your advice and definitely not watching this one at night.
I love Downton Abbey too. Looking forward to s2 which I understand is now taping.
Yes, at the end of the finale vid I watched at PBS it says they begin filming in March so hopefully the new season will begin this Fall. It will be an embarrassment of riches after the TB season is over, what with Boardwalk Empire and Downton Abbey. Until TB begins I’ll have Treme and The Borgias to keep me entertained. The Borgias premieres April 3 on Showtime!
Oooooo..The Borgias sounds good. I’m a sucker for costume epics. Just wish the winter fare was a little better for me. My garden is going to take a beating again. Between what’s coming in spring/summer and the 3 sites I like to read I’m going to have to get up at the crack of stupid.
haha, I know just what you mean! I’ve gotten into the habit of getting up with my husband at 4 am. Gahh! But I really have to if I’m to squeeze in everything I have to do and still make my internet rounds.
I LOVED Downton Abbey! I was such an addict, I watched the first 3 parts in one night. Wanted to finish it all in one sitting, but my butt was falling asleep on my computer chair, lol! Cannot wait for the next season. I feel like now that WWI is just starting, there’s so much more story there to tell. Maggie Smith is amazing, and I adore her dynamic with the actress playing Mrs. Crawley. Great stuff.
Cousin Violet and Mrs. Crawley are my favorite part of the show and miracle of miracles it just keeps getting better!
I feel sorry for Edith but she pisses me off no end lol. And Mary! Lawd, I reckon she’s going to have to wait for Matthew to come home from the war before anything is resolved between them and by then he’ll be a completely different person.
LOL at Thomas wiggling out of trouble and bad references and on top of that, by becoming a medic he’s avoided combat. Wily cocksucker!
LMAO at “wily cocksucker” Too true. I wish he had taken O’Brien with him! Edith is a conniving little wench. Sybil’s my favorite sister by far; the only one with a true moral compass. I feel terrible for Mary, but if she had grown up just a bit sooner and stopped trying to play all the angles she and Matthew would already be together. I’m also dying for Bates and Anna to get together. I adore them!
I don’t know if you saw the thread over at SVB’s, but I commented that the gay bare-chested Duke w/a hidden agenda and a smoking jacket is sooooooooo Bill with Mrs. Smallwood !! LOLOLOL!
feel terrible for Mary, but if she had grown up just a bit sooner and stopped trying to play all the angles she and Matthew would already be together.
Exactly, but at the same time I can understand Mary’s reluctance to accept Matthew’s proposal without telling him the truth about her lover, and I can also understand her delay in telling him the truth. I do think the unknown sex of the baby had a lot to do with the delay, but not everything.
I’m also dying for Bates and Anna to get together. I adore them!
Me too! I admire Bates’ dignity and integrity but sometimes he’s a little too much of a sad sack. Anna is perfect.
I love Sybil too. So plucky, so pretty!
I haven’t gotten a chance to get to these either…….I think I’ll wait for Saturday in the daylight hours now, BG! Thanks for the heads up
! Can you see any parallels to S4 of TB that AB might use?
Night/Day Watch- I haven’t watched it yet. LROI- I’d have to watch again with that in mind (during the day) because I was just trying to get the story between the 2 main characters. That, and I fast forwarded some parts.
Hey Bob.. I’ve watched LTROI 3X & thought it was a “sweet” story. (OK so I;m NUTS)
last night watched NW.. HOLY SHEET!.. a messy bloody “Matrix” with uglies .. Better watch it first thing in the morning.. You’ll need the whole day to recover, unless, you’re a VAMP>
Yo eric…….and that’s what makes the world go round…..different tastes.
Watched Night Watch last night. It wasn’t near as creepy as LTROI, but entertaining. There seemed to be a lot of emphasis on seeing the future. Makes me think that maybe someone in s4 will be seeing future events. Or maybe someone already has.
Hmm, I was just formulating a theory that we may see Psychic Sookie seeing the future much more clearly and distinctly than she has before. Thus far she’s had several obscure or ambiguous psychic episodes, like the anagram, her dream of Bill catching fire at the breakfast table and remaining totally unconcerned, and knowing Bill was taking her to the French restaurant, but there has been nothing yet that has been clear enough to catch her conscious attention. I can’t help but think these episodes of foretelling the future are about to escalate.
I know I’m sitting alone on this, but I still think the answer to some issues in the f#&king timeline may be her seeing future events. What’s his names Razor. If some things can’t be resolved with all the digging done at TAP, then it seems a reasonable answer. Maybe?…she waffles.
BG, you could be right. It would explain the mixed up seasonal clothing, ie some character arcs are ‘in the moment’ and some are in the future. Sookie wouldn’t be able to understand the difference in her ‘reading’ of characters because she doesn’t understand yet that she has the ability to see the future.
The most strident example for me is in S1 ep1?, where Dawn and Laff are talking about Jason being arrested. She literally shouts at them “I am not psychic”.
She’s probably like Laff in that she doesn’t want to be ‘sensitive to that shit’. It would be an awful burden to bear I imagine, to know the future.
This is simply a feeling, but have you noticed that many answers to questions we tin foil hat theorists pose go back to s1 more times than not? Yes, there are supportive explanations in s2&3, but the set up always seems to go back to s1. There may be more answers there than we realize. Or maybe I haven’t had my second cuppa yet. LOL
No, I think you’re right. I’ve felt that way for a while now. Some of the stuff can be found in s2 but most of the set up is in 1. Now that we know we didn’t see what we thought we saw of the Rattray beating everything else we’ve seen, including some key s2 and s3 scenes, is called into question. I figure we’ll get a lot more tangential reveals that will slowly close the loop on the unreliable representations of many of these key events.
For instance, Sookie’s direct questions to Bill about whether he could turn into a bat and levitate. We now know he CAN levitate–it’s just a matter of time before Batboy Bill is revealed.
Yah, wasn’t he a picture rising up to attach QSA?
*attack QSA*
Lol, I shouted “LIAR” when he did that. My family thinks I am completely nutso over this show.
My son is considering an intervention. ROTFL.
The fact that this show is so rich in so many things makes it much more than just a tv show.
The fact that this show is so rich in so many things makes it much more than just a tv show.
This is what I keep telling my son but he won’t listen, even after the Ratt reveal. We had another argument the other night over whether TB is a Fight Club-level mind-fuck–which was my position naturally–or simple popcorn camp. GAHHH!
Gee, I wish I had said it like that. lol But I think you are absolutely right. It took 2 seasons to reveal the Ratts attack.
I think that is the beauty of TB..it does exist on 2 levels and you can choose which one you like.
In the movie Night Watch, there is an element of invisibility. I don’t want to spoil the movie for you, but I’m curious as to how you will see it in relation to TB.
No shit? that’s awesome! Sounds like AB was giving us a blueprint.
Yup. In quite a few things in Night Watch. Next comes Day Watch, soon I hope.
Watched Day Watch last night. You’ll be happy to see TIME plays an important part. I found it a little long.
So far I’ve only seen Night Watch, but wow! A failed mystical abortion with a nasty potion and a drop of sacrificial blood…a yellow ‘electric’ truck (Sook brought electric light to Bill’s house) …an evil supe causing it to flip up when he stands in the middle of the road and puts a hand out…the choice to feed on the dark or the light that’s inside…
Right eh. There were so many things my head was spinning.
Yeah, I need to watch it again. I’m sure there is more.
Unfortunately I had to return Night Watch to the video rental store.
What do you make of the “Gloom” and the mosquitoes there?
NW and LTROI are available for streaming on Netflix, but DW is just on DVD.
The Gloom seems to correspond to the Void. I wonder if TB will explore that and make it as ominous. What do you think?
I’m trying to piece it together with some of the events in DW. So far, I think it will manifest for Tara or Laff. Tara (if she returns with a knowledge of occult) or Laff with his experiences on the V trip. As a matter of fact, the V trip kind of reminds me of the Gloom.
I like where you’re going with this! Did DW provide any more info on TG?
What I got, was there are different levels and access seems to depend on abilities.
I’ve just been given the dvds for both Night Watch and Day Watch. They have quite a few extras such as interviews and a commentary for Night Watch. Thought I could transcribe some bits iif they seem relevant and if anyone would like me to.
I’m with BG on this one anna. Please let us know if you find anything interesting in the commentaries because quite frankly I just can’t bring myself to watch either of them. It’s more than a just lack of time, I find myself decidedly..disinterested in the films themselves. IDK why.
@anna. Count me in for the commentary if you find anything relevant.
It would be interesting to hear the views and maybe an explanation of some of the strangeness. Thanks.
Me three, Anna!
I’m on the case!
I’m loving reading the discussion you guys are having. I STILL haven’t found the time to watch any of them. I really should have foregone Downton Abbey the other day, but I think I might actually have time today for LTROI, at least.
LTROI was my least favourite only because children were involved. It was the same for Lord Of the Flies. I have a hard time when kids are subjected to evil. Silly me, I know.
Not silly at all! I can’t stand to watch movies where kids get hurt or abused. I honestly can’t understand why Linda Blair’s parents let her be in The Exorcist!
I have the same kind of issues with films or tv that deal with prolonged confinement. I don’t mean that someone is locked up for awhile than rescued. The kind where the whole premiss is to survive being confined in very small places. I start to hyperventilate.
That’s why I will never read LOTF again. Once was more than enough. It’s also part of the reason I haven’t seen LTROI, yet. I’m just not looking forward to it. The other reason is that I know I can’t watch it at night. I’ll probably give it a go tomorrow morning.
Actually I am that type of person too…who also hates needless violence. But in LTROI the violence is so secondary you hardly notice it.
DA is in my que. Last night I finally got around to watching North and South. It was really good and made my heart go pitter pat. It’s totally Pride and Prejidice in the industrial North. The theme of the indolent south vs. the hard working north is impossible to miss.
Part of the plot involves a murder that leads the police to question the heroine. She will not tell Mr. Thorton what really happened because she doesn’t trust him with that kind of power over her. It’s totally Sookie in DAAD. Thornton has already demonstrated his trustworthiness and his love by having the case dismissed.
DA?
Downton Abbey. All these acronyms are getting out of hand. Snicker.
Duh. Clearly I haven’t had enough coffee.
Renee, I just got so excited when you mentioned North & South, because I thought you meant the Civil War miniseries w/Patrick Swayze. I adored all the Jakes books and saw this a milllion times when I was younger. Then I realized that wasn’t what you meant at all, LMAO!!!!
DA is GREAT. I think you’ll love it. Hubs and I started LTROI last night on our Netflix instant queue and at about 50 minutes in, it just went back to one of the beginning scenes. (The one with the blonde boy, a stick and someone’s ear. Whoa.) Anyway, we were confused for a moment and thought they were showing the scene again from another POV, or to make an artistic point! It took a few more minutes to realize we had a glitch in the system and that it was a mistake, LOLOL! Now I have to wait for the actual DVD to come so I can finish. I have the remake waiting for me too. I plan on doing NW and DW this weekend. Honestly, those sound better and much more relevant from what BG’s been saying.
What did you make of LTROI Skarlove? The parts that you got to see.
Ooh! I first fell in love with Patrick Swayze in N&S. I was in college. My roommate was busy with a project or classes or something and couldn’t watch it, so I would fill her in every night and moon over Orry. Don’t know why, but my pet name for him was Only.
One day my roommate came home ready to knock me upside the head because she had been discussing the show with others all week and calling him Only never realizing that wasn’t his name. ROTFL!
Ohh yummm yummm Swayze in N&S. It’s been too many years since I’ve seen it, I’ll have to add it to my massive and growing queue. I’m still trying to get to Guillermo del Toro’s The Devil’s Backbone.
BG, so far I find the relationship and bond Eli and Oskar share really fascinating. I thought te bully stuff was quite disturbing. I like the scene on the hospital ledge with Hakan. I really like the imagery of Eli in the tree……that’s about all I’ve got so far. I’m kinda confused honestly and I need to finish it to make heads or tails of it all?
I watched the Hollywood version the other DAY. Found it just as disturbing for me.
Great story, Renee! Oh how I loved his story with Madeleine! Such an amazing cast in general- from Robert Mitchum and Hal Holbrook right down to Johnny Cash, lol! You just made me want to go re-read them all
!
I hope I’m not going to spoil anything for you Sunny and Renee.
In DW there is a supervising body akin to The Authority as far as I can tell. They dispense justice for crimes committed by supes.
Don’t worry about me. I always like to know where a story is going before I get there, big surprise endings aside.
Glad to hear there is more on the political structure. I was curious about it since NW talked about liscensing the hair dresser vampire to turn his girlfriend. It was interesting that even though she consented, she later blamed NW for not looking out for her and allowing her to be turned. Is NW cooperating with evil or are they allowing people to have free will?
I also love being spoiled!
Ooo..ooo…There is a frame-up in DW as has been discussed elsewhere.
Damn, it just keeps getting better!
Is NW cooperating with evil or are they allowing people to have free will?
That’s kind of a grey area.
BTW, there is also a segment where a supe/shifter can “inhabit” a person. Brought to mind Sam’s hesitation when asked if shifters can turn into people and MA inhabiting folk.
Sorry for doing this in dribs and drabs, but trying to do RL things and think. Think I’ll watch DW again before it goes back to store.
Inhabit as in ‘possess’? Or actually imprinting on another person and shifting into their likeness?
Possess. Through a 3rd party.
Just read your comment @TAP that we might find out Compton’s true identity. I had the feeling in DW that their leader was a blueprint for Bill. And that Bill is much older than what has been shown to date.
Whether AB goes there without ambiguities is open to question. But the leaders of NW/DW are evenly matched.
There are a few possibilities for Bill, but I’m thinking it’s most likely we might see him in the Middle Ages mixed up with witches. He may be a straight up practitioner, or he might be a hypocrite who pratices magic while being involved in the Inquisition hunting withces, like a closeted gay pol who fights gay rights.
I also thought it interesting how they contrasted the leaders. The leader of NW cried when he saw all the destruction of the battle, but the leader of DW gloried in it. Also the NW leader is a healer.
Oh right, in the flashbacks to the ancient battle scenes.
In DW there is a quest for a Holy Grail type of Chalk. Can’t wrap my head around where AB might go with that if he uses it.
He’s already using it. Sookie is the Holy Grail, a ‘vessel’ who imparts blessings and special powers.
Geez I just said that @TAP before coming back here to read your comment. Great minds think alike. Ha. Dind’t mean to jump all over your idea.
You didn’t! The parallel is now obvious. C&P from my comment to you at TAP:
Like the Arc of the Covenent in the Raiders of the Lost Arc, she has to be kept from the hands of evil agents or all hell will break loose, possibly literally.
I mean, how can the Holy Grail NOT figure into it somehow?
can someone tell me DW and NW? please!
@Jerron. They are DW= Day Watch & NW= Night Watch <ROI= Let The Right One In.
Movies mentioned by AB in the first post on the new HBO site. Hope that helps.
Thank You! I was at a total loss!
Just watched LTROI but I’m still getting my thoughts together. Very disturbing indeed, and thanks BG for warning me not to watch it at night. o.0
And the Hollywood version Let Me In was just as bad. Glad I watched it during the day.
NW/DW are ok for night.
That’s good because I’ve put off my chores today long enough and those two will have to wait until tonight. Next up NW!
I just took a look at the trailers you have at the beginning of the post for NW/DW and it mentioned in NW that this story is a trilogy. Anyone know what the 3rd one is called and if it’s available? Love to see part 3.
Found it. Looking on ‘pedia there is a 3rd story called Twilight Watch which is composed of several stories. I guess the movie version has yet to be made. He may have to change the title to avoid any unfortunate association. lol.
Third part is called Final Watch. He did change the title.
Looks like it is a tetrology–NW, DW, TW, & FW. Wiki has detailed info about The Gloom (aka Twilight) in its FW article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Watch
The entire tetralogy is devoted to the Others – humans able to draw on the magical force flowing through the world. They can enter into the Twilight, a shadowy dimension next to our own, from where they also draw power to perform their magic. The Twilight itself is divided into levels, with each level harder to access than the one above it. While every Other may enter the first level, only the most powerful ones can get as far as the fifth, and the select few can get through to the sixth. While the first levels are unpleasant and devoid of life (apart from blue moss in the first level), fifth and sixth levels are quite hospitable, with life and vegetation. The main mystery of the final novel is what is on the seventh level- only the greatest of magicians can penetrate to the seventh level.
Well! Now I’m wondering if Sookie is a “zero level Other”. But that may be not quite right, because a zero level can only absorb energy (light) not lose it, as in “he’s stealing your light”. Anyway……good yarn.
The Twilight as described in ‘pedia almost sounds like purgatory.
Oops, you’re right BG. 3 movies, but 4 novels. The 1st 2 movies just cover the 1st novel.
BG for some reason the American version seemed a little watered down to me. There were certain aspects of it that I liked but the Swedish version seemed to haunting.
It was disturbing and honestly I felt like I was looking into the depths of hell but for some reason I was really touched by the friendship with the two of them.
The book on the the other hand is way way over the edge…I was thinking about reading it but don’t think I want those words in my brain.
True Jerron but still creeped me out. No, ain’t never gonna read that book. Don’t want to go there at all.
Ok ya’ll, first of all the young boy who played Oskar, Kare Hedebrantt, looks exactly like Zenali Turner, the girl who played young Sookie:
http://www.kinoserial.com/photos_people/zenali_turner_3.jpg
Second, the more I thought about this film the more depressed I became. Yes, elements of the friendship between Eli and Oskar were touching but what did Oskar really get out of it in the end except a bleak future moving from one depressing apartment after the other, killing people so his beloved can eat? This will go on until Oskar is an old man like his predecessor and if he mucks up and gets caught Eli will feed on him and casually and unfeelingly toss him out a window as well.
Yes, Eli was a monster in my view. That one woman, when she realized she’d been infected and doomed to a life of kill or die, chose to die. Did Eli glamour her servant when she patted him on the very cheek he later destroyed with acid? Did she glamour Oskar when he turned from being repulsed by her murders to being willing to murder for her? Eli cares for nothing but feeding. Her long years of life have done nothing but make her more vicious and cunning.
I think this film was mainly about the compromises people make when they’re desperate for love and acceptance. The tragedy of Oskar is that he was a child and hadn’t lived long enough to know that things can change and get better if you persevere.
What and who will we settle for and how far down the moral abyss are we willing to go not to be alone?
And what was the strangness with the repeated “I’m not a girl”? At first I related it to Jessica’s declaration that ‘techinically’ she’s not a girl, but then we saw the scar on Eli’s pubic area suggesting a penis had been removed. Is this another hint from AB that Bill is not who/what he claims?
Exactly so! I just posted on SVB that this movie relates to Bill and Sookie and has nothing to do with Eric. It depicts how evil seduces, corrupts, and alienates the innocent.
I hadn’t thought of glamour in terms of the movie, but you’re probably right since the vampire mythology was very traditional. I assumed that Eli caressed her companion’s cheek to make him recall an earlier period in their relationship.
It depicts how evil seduces, corrupts, and alienates the innocent.
Much better way to put it.
I think Eli glamoured because she claimed people just ‘gave’ her money. Not bloody likely.
True. That pile of jewelry definitely caught my eye.
Didn’t really know what to make of the silver egg, though. Any ideas?
None, only that it was a puzzle like the Rubics cube.
That pile of jewelry was a significant clue from AB, imo.
‘Puzzle’ being a very direct reference to TB and it’s narrative mode.
I find it curious that some people thought this movie sweet. Maybe because it was children involved it was supposed to portray innocents. To me that made it ore horrific.
Can’t spell this morning….*innocence.*
*more horrific*
Yeah, I don’t get it. Apparently someone wrote at MTV that “The innocent love that forms between Oskar and Eli is also wonderful to behold”. REALLY?? Eli was no telling how old and Oskar was a literal child, completely innocent. Eli did that thing Bill always does when she reminded Oskar that he ‘wanted’ to killl while she killed because she ‘had’ to. IOW, you’re just as bad as I am, I’m the only one who can love you, etc etc etc…
I find that reaction odd, too. Before watching I assumed that the movie was just ambiguous, but Oskar’s future is completely laid out through Eli’s first companion. There is and can be no love there. Jerron said it yesterday. It’s like looking into the depths of hell.
It’s people seeing what they want to see. They don’t want to look into the depths of hell, they don’t want to acknowledge the presence of the deeply evil and corrupt and it’s potential–nay lust– for ‘seducing the innocent’.
EVERYTHING is grey, everything is ambiguous, nothing is black and white, good or evil…This view of the world releases the holder of any responsibility to DO anything about evil and corruption..Sticking to the middle of the road keeps them above it all, untouched and unconcerned, but imo there is nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos… sorry, I’ll get off my moralistic soap box now.
Lorena mentions in Time Bomb, that Bill always like the innocent type.
She did indeed. There is a lot of dark magical benefits in sacrificing and corruption of innocence.
Oh right. Throughout mythology, Evil is always looking for virgins. LOL
But how can you not relate Oskar to Eli’s companion??? I really don’t get it.
You can’t not relate them if you were paying attention. Oskar’s future was well laid out. Eli will use him and keep him strung along until he’s no longer useful and then she will kill him as coldly as she did his predecessor.
Once he becomes strong enough, then as he ages, the first time he doesn’t make it home with the blood….he’s gone.
Ahh..but the child already had a fascination with evil…remeber his scrapbook? I would also argue that although it seemed like he had a “procurer” job already lined up for him…he is also a child. At some point someone in the daytime is going to wonder where is the adult. She has money.
I don’t know…I see what you all are saying about loss of innocence but I could argue that his parents and bullies already took that from him. Perhaps this movie is an allegory of childhood abuse and neglect. I can see what he got out of it..he got a friend and someone to belong to.
I can see what he got out of it..he got a friend and someone to belong to.
Absolutely, but this goes right to Sunny’s point, “I think this film was mainly about the compromises people make when they’re desperate for love and acceptance.”
However bad Oskar’s live was, all he has to look forward to with Eli is becoming her servant and completely alienated from humanity.
However bad Oskar’s live was, all he has to look forward to with Eli is becoming her servant and completely alienated from humanity.
I would say he was already alienated…
Her caressing his check was a throwback to the books in which Harkan was a pedophile who lost his job.
I understand what you are saying Jerron, but every time she touched him I saw it as a seduction. Eli is an older being and yes he was neglected which made him ripe for her seduction. YKWIM?
And that’s why this movie creeped me out. As well as the protagonists being children.
She is a user.
Oskar being a child made it that much more horrific. He had no defenses, none.
The movie Let Me In, only very obliquely alluded to I’m not a girl. When the boy first sees her in the playground, she has a hoodie pulled over her head and looks for all the world like a boy.
I think the child Oskar is directly related to Sookie in her child-like innocence. Before Bill got hold of her she was constantly going on about ‘nasty talk’ and admonishing Tara about the “J” word, and such like. She was for all intents a purposes a child. Virginal, even.
Wow…I had a totally different take on the film…I called it a love story..the pure platonic love that can only exist in certain circumstances.
Oskar already existed in a macabre state…he had a book of murders…a collection of kills. Now I sae both versions back to back so I might be getting this part wrong, but he had no connection to either parents…they never showed the mothers face…which means she doesn’t exist to him and the father was an alcoholic and perhaps homosexual. Either way he seemed more interested in his drink and “company” than he did his son. And think about how isolated he felt even though he was never alone. Had he persevred and stuck it out he probably would have turned to drugs and booze…the socially acceptable ways of dealing with life’s disappointment. So he gets kicked around at school and he is like a “guest” in his own home. I can see why she appealed to him.
As far as Eli is concerned. Remember she was a monster yes but she was also turned as a child. She was 12! I don’t think she will have a problem finding her own food…she seemed to me like she wanted him to know about what she was but didn’t want him to hunt for her. I guess I took her nature out of the equation and started liking her….I will be back to comment more later.
As far as I am not a girl…I think she saw herself as asexual…as a matter of fact when they were casting the call went out for either a boy or girl…the friendship would have worked the same had Eli been a boy. And there were 2 times when he was bleeding and she didn’t attack him. She had some control…I don’t think she would harm him.
I read up top that people see it as Bill and Sookie…not me I see it as more Eric and Pam. I just don’t and didn’t see her as a villian. More like someone trapped by circumstance.
Another point can we ascribe common vampire cannon to this movie? It wasn’t spelled out but to see that she glamoured people to me seems like a bit of a stretch. I think she was more like Claudia in Interview with a Vampire.
@Jerron
Yesterday I almost brought up the points about Oskar that you did, but the conversation was already going in so many directions. Thanks for bringing us back to this.
Yes, Oskar’s life was lonely, his parents were crap, and he was filled with rage and perhaps something even darker. These are all the things that allowed an opening for Eli. Oskar wasn’t innocent in terms of being angelic, but he was innocent of murder, even if he did have the potential to be a serial killer. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t be useful to Eli.
My take on the feeding issues was that Eli knew very well how to feed on her own. She had her companion kill for her because she didn’t like the violence and mess of it. When she asked Oskar to ‘be her’ for a little while, I think she was foreshadowing that she would have him kill for her.
Without Eli, he would have made a personal connection with a human sooner or later. With her that will never happen. He will just become more alienated. Without her, he probably would have lived a productive, if not perfect, life and never would have become a killer.
Eli may have become a vampire when she was 12, but she was obviously much older than that. We don’t think of Bill as 30, so why should we think of Eli as 12? Her appearance is deceptive.
See I guess I see kids differently…I don’t assume their are innocents just because they are young. (I have worked as a sub teacher too long maybe! LOL) I don’t know if I believe that some are born evil or they become evil through abuse and neglect but Oskar most def had a darkess.
Without Eli, he would have made a personal connection with a human sooner or later. With her that will never happen. He will just become more alienated. Without her, he probably would have lived a productive, if not perfect, life and never would have become a killer.
He was already practicing killing…I don’t know if someone stepping in would have helped.
If you all have time read this…it compares the book and the movies…..
http://www.avclub.com/articles/let-the-right-one-in,25503/
It looks like we’re going to have to agree to disagree over this. I don’t think Oscar’s future was set in stone until he met Eli. I’ve known too many adolescents and adults with ‘interesting’ hobbies and proclivities who lead more or less normal lives.
Eli was the one who spurred Oskar to violence, not to defend himself against the bullies, but to attack as hard as he could. By putting that kid in the hospital, the level of violence escalated, which, of course, suited Eli’s purpose.
“Please…be me for a little while.”
Eli was asking Oskar to share the burden of her sins for the duration of his life.
YES! This is why Bill is so quick to admit things like murdering UB.
Had a quick thought about the name Eli. It may not track in Swedish, but it could be very ambiguous in English, Eli/Ellie.
Good point. Did the English version keep the same names?
Do you mean the Hollywood version? Then it’s no. They were Owen and Abby.
Ha! Guess I need that second cup of coffee to switch the neurons on. Yes, the Hollywood version. I wonder why they changed her name. Maybe Abby is more old fashioned and suggests more age.
Maybe I just had a brain fart. The copy I had of LTROI had subtitles and my brain kept alternating between Eli(m) and Ellie. Like I said before, it gave me major creeps, that’s the only excuse I have. LOL
I think it was a great observation!
Check to see if there is a male version of the name.
It’s me again…some controversy with the subtitles…
check this out when you have time.http://iconsoffright.com/news/2009/03/let_the_wrong_subtitles_in_to.html
Thanks for the heads up about the subtitle issue. Netflix has the original ones, and yeah, they really set the tone.
Jerron, I suppose it’s all down to a matter of perspective but for me the bottom line is Eli, a very old being, had no right to take that child from his home and everything he knew no matter how shitty his parents or what his latent tendencies were. That’s like saying that it’s acceptable for a serial killer to come along and take a child away from his home and parents to nurture his darkest impulses and turn him into a killer because the child is collecting articles on murder. And Oskar was not old and wise enough to make such a decision on his own.
And his parents were not that shitty. During what I think was about a 4 week timeline he had two visits with his father. The first was full of fun and affection, quality time spent. The second, yes, it did seem he had a gay lover and he started drinking but he had not done that during Oskar’s first visit so it wasn’t habitual. Does the father not have a right to the lover of his choice and to have a drink once in a while, even in front of his 12 yr old, without having said 12 yr old lured away from him by a killer, never to be seen again? His mother was also affectionate with him and wanted to spend time with him. She was concerned about incidents at school and involved the father in the discussion. She did nothing to deserve the disappearance of her child, right in the midst of a child-killing mania. Even if she HAD done something wrong no mother deserves such a horrible thing to happen to her or her child.
My mother was an alcoholic and my father was largely absent. Throughout much of my childhood I was stowed away in an attic room reading an enclopedia of true crime and deviant behavior. I was obsessed with murder stories, Edgar Allan Poe,et al. Did I have the potential to become something dark? I suppose so but no one came along and seduced/lured or otherwise coerced me away from my home to nurture any such tendencies so I guess I’ll never know. The life of Eli’s other companion/servant served as foreshadowing for what Oskar had to look forward to and no matter how close they were or how kind to Oskar Eli remained, the fact is the poor boy’s future was one of unrelenting bleakness and isolation, ultimately to be coldly and ruthlessly killed when he was no longer useful. How would his life have turned out if Eli had never entered it we and Oskar will never know, but he certainly deserved the chance to find out.
Yes we have different perspectives on this film…which amazes me because I am usually step for step in agreement with you! But I can see how our unique backgrounds lends to the different interpreatation. Also when you get a chance check out that link…the book presents a totally different Oskar. I think AB might have thought of the relationship more like Bill and Lorena. After reading the link my opinion changed.
I guess I can see how his isolation made him ripe for Eli.
I guess I can see how his isolation made him ripe for Eli.
I see it too, and so did she. Eli took advantage of it imo, just like Bill did with Sookie. Although Sookie is not nearly as alone and isolated as she likes to think, given the number and quality of people who love and care for her.
But what I don’t know for sure is that she will abuse him…this might just be what I want to happen. The movie is very subtle and very dark. But where I think it deviates from Tb Sookie is that I think part of her wanted to be with Bill because of the attention it caused. She was known for something other than Crazy Sookie. While I think Sookie is naive I also don’t think she is as innocent as someone who wears white to a bar would like you to believe.
My DVD of LTROI has a commentary by the writer and the director, so just to add some confusion I’ll add a few of their comments.
According to the author the love between them is innocent, pure and asexual. Eli is still 12, even though she has lived for 200 years, as when she sleeps she forgets what she has learnt. She is attracted to Oskar as he is the child that she hasn’t been for a long time.
She makes two acts of sacrifice to Oskar, once when she eats the candy and then when she enters Oskar’s flat uninvited.
The Rubik cube is an homage to the Lament Configuration in Hellraiser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemarchand%27s_box
It is used by Oskar to get in touch with the other side, with Eli.
There’s a lot more, but I’ll get back to DW & NW.
@anna. Really interesting what the author has to say. A pure and innocent love story……hmmmm.
I still found the movie creepy. Based on what I saw I doubt I’ll ever read the book. If Oskar stays with her, as grows up wouldn’t he have to become a serial killer, procuring for her the blood that keeps her alive? Would she expect him to? If he doesn’t become a serial killer, yet he still knows what she does, isn’t that moral culpability? I would think it would erode a decent moral centre. So many questions.
Thank you for doing this.
According to the author the love between them is innocent, pure and asexual.
I’m sure the author believes this and isn’t pulling an Alan Ball but I completely disagree. “Pure” love (as opposed to merely innocent love) is unselfish and self-sacrificing. Eli pulled a Bill and sacrificed what was best for her ‘love’ for her own selfish needs. It may well be asexual but this doesn’t mitigate what Eli was asking of Oskar, which was essentially to sacrifice his entire life for her own care and comfort. If she really truly and purely loved Oskar she never would have asked such a sacrifice of him. And what does she offer him in return? Acceptance? Bill offers this to Sookie but does it make up for all of the other shit he puts her through?
Though there’s a hint, the paedophilia of the original story has been taken out of the film. The book implies that a year ago E had picked out Hakan, a drunk who was living in the gutter. The film does imply that Oskar will become like H.
What the author says is that “Eli is frozen in the body and mind of a 12 year-old. He sleeps for long periods of time and when he wakes up he’s forgotten everything he has learnt. He has some memories but hasn’t really grown. So basically Eli isn’t a 200 year-old inside the body of a 12 year-old. Eli is a 12 year-old who has lived for a very long time…status quo… “
Virginia
“Eli hasn’t asked the question in the way that Virginia does, V wants to die, she can’t live like this. E has decided to live no matter what the cost.”
The scene in the hospital shows what E went through when she was infected.
“Lacke & Virginia are a reflection of O & E if they should have stayed, taken the punches, did not chose to be themselves.”
There’s a shot of a table of objects that hold clues to Eli’s life, they include a puzzle egg, a white rabbit, a lion statue and a number of rings.
The fact that Eli wakes up every new dusk being a 12 year old status quo is curious. Is it selective amnesia or because of the age she was when turned or what other explanation? Which leads me to the question of Bill and his memories of the Civil War, Caroline, the death of his son, his turning and more. Speculation has been that he is older than he has claimed.
The comment is over the scene when Eli and Oskar share a bed and the author contnues to say that Eli isn’t really cheating or tricking Oskar because of this.
LTROI and TB are quite different stories and films. Since this one deals with children it might have more to do with how Sookie and Hunter, as children, reacted to coming into contact with something Other or learning that they are different in some way.
It’s a long fim and commentary so I might have missed out something important.
@anna- I doubt you have missed anything. I’m just trying to wrap my head around Bill’s persona. I do see LTROI as a blueprint for the B/S relationship, just adults. An older being taking advantage of a young naive person.
@Bobsgran that makes a lot of sense.
Hakan is also prepared to become a serial killer out of “love” for Eli.
Finished both the Swedish and American versions – LTROI was way better IMO. I haven’t been able to stop thinking about it. Though I do see parallels between Oskar and Sookie (the obvious isolation in school, bullying victim, etc….) I don’t see Eli as Bill. I actually feel sympathetic towards Eli – I’m actually getting a Jessica and Hoyt vibe from this. At one time, Eli WAS 12. Tragedy struck. She had to become a survivor any way she could. As will Jessica. If they survive the beginning of the season, and if Hoyt remains human for a certain period of time, I see Oskar/Eli as indicative of their future. She will end up using him (like Bill has used Sookie, as this is what she knows from her Maker) and she’ll let her darkness come out – yet will always look 17. An aging Hoyt will overlook her manipulations because she can protect him from some dangerous aspects of the outside world, and he is in such awe of her and her powers that he might end up killing and procuring meals for Jessica in the way Oskar will for Eli. Over time, Jessica will no longer love him, but will keep him around. Hoyt might one day grow to resent that his life has been virtually overtaken by darkness, and end it – perhaps by being sickened with hatred and self-loathing for what he’s done for his “true love”.
I still have to watch LTROI but I have already seen NW and DW. I enjoyed them but prefered the four Lukianenko books which introduced some fascinating issues:
- The “grayness” of morals. Especially the second book deals with this in great depth portraying several life philosophies.The night watch represents the idea of a “Greater Good” and is ready to pay high prices for it and ignore the sake of individual people (communism and facism are in this book projects of the light side that have gone terribly wrong). The dark side rejects the idea of this Greater Good and states that everybody must have the choice about his destiny.It is a bit like Slytherin and Gryffindor in HP only better written and more morally nuanced.
- determination vs. own choice: people and supernatural creatures have drives but they can control them: Vampires crave blood but they can drink pig blood, too.
- love and selfishness / selflessness: The relationship between Swetlana and Anton / Alissa and Sebulon. Are we allowed to make decisions for our partner if we assume that he/she is unable to do so?What is more important: The happiness of two people or a great moral aim?
- prejudice: the idea exists that supernaturals especially vampires cannot be trusted due to their craves for blood. Is it right to discriminate against them to protect others?
What parallels do you see to TB?
I haven’t been able to make myself watch NW and DW, though I do intend to get to them sometime before s4 starts. From your description the books seem more my style.
This a bit long, and it’s only from the first 20 mins or so, but some of Sergei Lukyanenko’s commentary on Night Watch seems to echo what has been discussed about TB. I’ll carry on if you think it might be useful.
In the book “you can’t say that good is the Night Watch or Light is the Night Watch. It’s what sometimes the characters of the book, the film, say themselves. They say they perform the function of good in the world, perform the function of Light, but is it really true? No, I can’t venture to say that. It’s not good, not evil. It’s people who took upon themselves the function to judge. Some took it upon themselves to judge where good is, some took it upon themselves to judge where evil is.”
Visit to the witch
AG asks to bring back his wife and agrees to the death of the unborn child and even the fact that it is love is not an excuse for his actions. Such actions for a Light Warrior are very strange & atypical.
The film is the about “the path of a man who makes a mistake, who realises he is wrong and is trying to correct his evil mistake.”
Theme: “What is the redemption of guilt, what is a sin, where someone goes even (when) moved by the best intentions and where he should not go.”
When AG drinks: “Everything depends on the first moment of his initial entrance into the Gloom, turning into this magical being.”
“If he enters possessed by some low emotions, passions, with thoughts of crime and despicable conditions the Dark Other can’t be changed anymore.”
The witch could have been knowingly pushing AG to become a Dark Other as she should have recognised his potential.
The Gloom
In the book the Gloom is a grey area, devoid of colours, movements and sounds slow down. Like The Lord of the Rings when Frodo puts on the ring and ends up in the Gloom.
Chose to represent the Gloom in the film by mosquitoes, bloodsuckers that suck powers, energy and life out of people.
The Torch
In the book all the powers of the Other are the person’s abilities; amulets, talismans etc are mostly secondary.
Oh yes! Do carry on. Very interesting.
Thanks anna. A lot of work for you, but very much appreciated.
Indeed, very much appreciated.
What do you think so far?
I love it anna. It’s bringing memories back of the movie.
A few more bits & I’ll try to put some more up tomorrow.
Blood is the most ancient magical tool, it is life & power.
Anton’s blood is a sacrifice to the Gloom.
Children do not inherit the abilities of the Other, the fact that Anton’s son Ygor is an Other is a coincidence.
The inquisition is an order that consists of the most powerful Dark & Light wizards, that oversees the actions of both the Day & Night Watch, they are the police for the police.
I thought it interesting that the 2 police of the police were identical twins.
Day Watch
The Director comments that there are a lot of signs in the movie, a second level for the Russian audience to understand.
Samyon’s yellow truck has a rose embedded in clear plastic as the knob on the gearstick. It looks as if it is cream in Night Watch and changes colour to pink and then red in Day Watch.
Svetlana means light.
Geser is a famous Tibetan folk hero.
The word crow and curse sound very alike in Russian.
Sergei Lukyanenko:
“The psychology of mankind is made up in such a way and the human psyche is structured so that, entangled by mistakes and troubles, one wants to believe that there is someone or something that will decide for you, will cross out all your mistakes and correct all of your stupid actions which brought you to this state.”
Zavulon by Viktor Verzhbitsky (the actor who plays him)
Lucifer, Cain, a man who broke away with structure, a personality, the devil, Satan.
“What is evil? Try acting it. What is evil? The character is in a way very… he is not physical, that’s why he’s like this, theatrical, I would say he’s very ominous.”
Commenting on the initiation party for Yegor the director makes a reference to Kubrik’s Eyes Wide Shut having a Masonic ceremony with a hint of Venetian Carnival but that this would have been fake in relation to Russian life.
Night Watch
What Svetlana needed was not magic, “actually a normal, ordinary human talk that only Anton could give her, who has too much from the human actually remaining in his soul.
Fabulous ann. I wonder what the rose changing colours means. I noticed it in the movie but not sure what it could mean.
Have to think about this more.
Wow Anna, thanks so much for doing the heavy lifting on these commentaries. Your effort is much appreciated. That morphing rose is a familiar motif!
The commentaries are great and I like the way the author sometimes points out changes made for the film that don’t make any real sense.
The director also commented that they turned Anton into a seer for the American market.
There’s so much I’m not always sure what to write up.
There’s quite a lot in the films that turns up in TB.
The rose has quite a few meanings in Russia which is why they may have used it.
http://sendingflowerstorussia.com/meaning-for-color-of-roses.htm
It is also used as a tattoo by the Russian Mafia.
Svetlana is shown as being forgetful when she returns from entering the second level of the Gloom.
Some dialogue from Day Watch
Yegor Uncle Zavulon, why are we the Dark Ones?
Zavulon Imperfections are hidden in darkness, Yegor.
And people… always have their imperfections.
It allows us the luxury of doing what we want.
Of being exactly who we truly are.
Gives us the gift of love.
Anton to Yegor For you, I wish only one thing: that you learn how to forgive…
Lukyanenko
“It is never too late to correct one’s mistakes, one should never despair.”
Director Timur Bekmambetov on the body swap
They wanted to bend the rules, make a hero in a woman’s body who would immediately feel ridiculous, awkward & helpless.
“In the life of women there are many complications which we don’t experience.”
Galina Tyunina who plays Olga about playing Anton in the restaurant scene with Svetlana comments that it’s about creating an “inner connection with a human being, it doesn’t matter anymore whether it’s a man or a woman.
“No one will decide anything for you. Anyway, reagardless of the existence in life of such strong characters as Geser and Zavulon in any case you have to decide yourself and somebody else’s fate can’t be changed, everyone is responsible for their own.”
I think that the comment about responsibility is made by Lukyanenko.
Last bit as I think I’ll stop here unless there’s anything specific anyone wants to know about.
The twins don’t feature in the books but the Inquisition is made up of both Dark and Light Others.
Predicting the future is tied up with seeing probabilities.
Night Watch
From Sergei Lukyanenko’s commentary
The fact that vampires are reflected in the mirrors, not seen in the real world, that is absolutely true. That’s a part of the world of the Watches. That is, the fact that they don’t reflect in the mirror is a lie spread by vampires themselves, in fact it’s the other way around.
A vampire can be unseen to the ordinary man, unseen when he enters the Gloom, because the Gloom is this universe parallel to ours, and it is out of reach of our sight. It’s the world where the Others prefer to hold their battles.
Vampires become vampires either by wishing this fate upon themselves upon entering the Gloom, that is, wishing for immortality at the expense of other people, or by the bite of another vampire. In essence, the only way for an ordinary human being without this ability of an Other to become an Other is to allow a vampire to bite you and receive as a prize for that the abilities of an Other, eternal, or shall we say long life but at the same time lose something. In both book and film the vampires are not alive, they lose what should be called by right, the soul and that of course is pressing on them. They feel pretty well that their life in actuality is no longer life, is simply non-death.
Vampires are the lowest of the Dark Others, oppressed as not in control of their powers, used by the Day Watch.
From the book The Last Watch
“When you manage to get out of the nigredo, whether you’re a Dark One or a Light One, you have a chance to continue your journey. You can only move out via the nigredo, decay and dissolution. Move on to synthesis. To the creation of the new. To albedo.”
Thank you for doing this. I’m really enjoying it. As long as you’re writing, I’ll be reading.
I’ll be back later with comments.
Hi Sunny, it looks as if I managed to post the same thing twice by mistake somehow, please could you delete one of the posts, thank you!
Sure thing, anna!
Thank you!
ok Sunny maybe you can help me out with this…I saw a trailer for a movie with women vampires in another country and they women were trying to get another woman to join and she wanted the power…I can’t remember the name of it and its driving me crazy…any clue?
We Are the Night?
http://www.horrorsociety.com/2011/05/26/all-girl-vampire-thriller-we-are-the-night/
yes!!! Thanks Sunny…I couldn’t remember where I had seen it!
ohh..Sunny I watched We Are The Night…I liked it and would give it two snaps and a twist. The ending was a little fuzzy but other than that I liked what the female vampires represented.
Now I really want to see it!