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This comment by pennydreadful in the “Well hello Dimitri” thread deserves the spotlight:
I know that a lot of people seem to think that the minisode shows Bill in a saintly light, but that’s not the interpretation that I got from it. If anything, it’s an insight into just what a self-justifying and conscienceless sociopath Bill Compton truly is. As I watched the clip again, I really felt as if I were watching a classic con job play out upon the screen.
First, he knows that Mrs. Smallwood will be dropping by yet he is conveniently in a state of undress. Despite the fact that he has to get ready to meet Sookie later that evening and it takes all of two minutes to put a shirt on, he refuses to get dressed because he’s “running late.” Incidentally, where have we seen Bill’s robe before? In S2E7′s “Release Me” where Bill makes a seemingly sincere and noble sounding speech to Lorena begging that he be released because he’s grown oh so tired of all the sense cruelty and nihilism. It’s quite touching until we realize that after leaving her, Bill rushed into the arms of the evil trio of Malcom, Liam, and Diane. Oh well, so much for turning over a new leaf.
Jewelry is one of the most marked up consumer goods in retail (somewhere between 400%-500%.) So let’s assume that the ring that Bill picked out is priced at $10,000 (and that’s a conservative estimate.) He is commanding Mrs. Smallwood to sell him the ring for $2,000. As an employee, she’s going to get into serious trouble for offering a customer such an outrageous discount. At the very least, she will probably lose her job. More than likely, she will be responsible to make up the difference and that’s a crushing financial burden for someone probably making a little over minimum wage. Sure Bill could just kill her and steal the ring outright, but her disappearance (or rather the disappearance of the hundreds of thousands of dollars of merchandise she has with her) would have attracted unwanted attention from law enforcement. Although he has a receipt, Bill hasn’t really paid for the item. If I go into a store and switch price tags, it’s legally considered larceny and fraud.
Bill states that he is a one human vampire. However, we know this to be a bold faced lie since he’s fed on (or attempted to feed upon): The Rattrays, Jerry, Uncle Barlett, Jessica, and the young man from QSA’s blood slave harem. The first time I watched the clip, I had mistaken Mrs. Smallwood for a widow but now I see that she is probably a lonely divorcee who is attempting to awkwardly flirt with a client in an embarrassing and unprofessional manner. Yet, Bill convinces her that for egregious and unforgivable sin of being attracted to him she deserves to have her life ruined (and make no mistake, her life will be ruined when her employer discovers the “discount.”) The justification that somehow Mrs. Smallwood got what she deserved is exactly the one perpetuated by serial killers, con artists, and other assorted sociopaths. Also, I wonder how Sookie would feel if she knew about how her “gentlemanly” fiancée acquired her engagement ring. Despite his lip service to the idea of “mainstreaming”, Bill has no compunction about ruthlessly exploiting humans for his own ends. Ultimately, the Bill Compton we saw savagely torturing and killing that couple in Chicago (another scene where Bill gives an ill-gotten gift of jewelry) is the same Bill Compton today. He hasn’t evolved morally but has instead, become an even more cunning and chameleon-like predator.
Penny, is this ok? I cleaned it up, but I gotta tell you it didn’t need much. It’s wonderful.
Sunny- I am so just so flattered that you would feature my comment on your blog. As I’ve said, this is really high praise coming from you.
I keep telling all you guys, you add so much to my original posts and contribute so much to our collective understanding I don’t see why I shouldn’t do this more often.
Well done Pennyd. I am always so grateful when people can put thoughts so coherently. Don’t have that skill myself so I love to read others who do.
[Although he has a receipt, Bill hasn’t really paid for the item. If I go into a store and switch price tags, it’s legally considered larceny and fraud.]
This is true, but if the sole reason behind this was to have a receipt, why not ask her to sell it to him for, say, $50 instead of “at cost?” That wouldn’t be any more suspicious, if it came down to it. Plenty of shit employees steal goods from work and sell or pawn it to fund drug habits and the like.
I guess I still feel like the whole point of the “at cost” sale was to position it such that it isn’t stealing proper, just cutting into the store’s ridiculous profit margin. And Miz Smallwood won’t get ARRESTED for this, as she would if he took the ring and glamored her– but she WILL probably get FIRED. You have to admit that, when it comes down to it, that’s the lesser of two evils.
All of that said, I think Sookie would be pretty disgusted if she knew about this. And at the end of the day, Bill could have just spared this poor lady and PAID FULL PRICE FOR THE RING. So there’s definitely still that…
Bill has presented himself to both Sookie and the audience as a posterboy for the mainstreaming movement. To use Sonny’s term, he’s a Greenpire (“Jessica, we recycle in this house.”) He listens to NPR and gives talks to DotGD at the local Methodist church. He sterns forbids Jessica from feeding on willing donors and hypocritically insists that she subsist on a True Blood only diet. However, I think mainstreaming is about more than simply drinking True Blood…it’s about integrating into the human community, peacefully coexisting with humans, and abiding by the laws of the land. Perhaps jewelry stores do have an outrageous markup, but does that justify Bill’s actions? If humans think stores are overpriced they don’t have the luxury of using that as a justification for shoplifting.
Also I think it’s ironic that he attempts to rip off the very store that is tolerantly going out of its way to serve a member of the vampire community. Yes, he paid a paltry sum for the ring but from a legal standpoint, that ring is still stolen and Bill committed fraud.
Heresy of heresies…I’m not actually an Eric/Sookie shipper. While I find all the TB/SVM characters interesting, I don’t have a preference for who either of them end up with. However, that being said….I purchased my one way ticket on the Bill Compton hate train a long time ago
I was thinking a little more about this, and also wanted to add that we didn’t see what happened after this minisode cut off, or what Bill glamoured into Mrs. Smallwood’s memory. We’re all left as viewers to fill in that blank.
Given the circumstances, I think it’s likely that Bill “told” Mrs. Smallwood– just like he did with the limo driver from last season– that they had mindblowing sex and that she gave him the ring at cost in return. Because let’s face it– if Bill had “haggled” with her in this manner, I suspect she would have gladly accepted those terms. (In fact, that’s probably why he made sure to ask what her intentions were before he proceeded in his glamouring– to make sure that his assumption was correct.) In fact, Bill wearing that smoking jacket when he answered the door depicted him as a regular gigilo– which is exactly what he would have been if he had bartered sex for a ring.
By doing what he did, Bill was able to benefit from the terms of this “deal” without having to cheat on Sookie to do so. (Which is not exactly upstanding, LOL, but it isn’t what I would call a con, either– except insofar as he really didn’t have to get his hands dirty.) And Mrs. Smallwood is forced to go back to her employer and admit to what she’s done, or lie to cover it up– paying a price that she no doubt would have had to pay if Bill actually HAD slept with her to get the discount.
That’s why I think that, ultimately, Mrs. Smallwood is getting her just desserts for her indiscretion. Sure, Bill could have just turned her away and called the shop to report her. But because 1) this is “reverse” sexual harrassment, and no one ever takes that seriously, and 2) Bill is a vampire, it’s very possible that she wouldn’t even have been reprimanded otherwise. (Just because the business is accomodating a presumably wealthy vampire, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they aren’t “vampirephobic” or discriminatory.)
Anyway, at the end of the day, no one can deny that Mrs. Smallwood deserved to be disciplined for her lack of professionalism, even if she is just a lonely old divorcee. By glamouring her to sell him the ring at cost, Bill ensured that this is what happened. So again, I don’t think what he did is so awful, based on the fact that she almost definitely would have struck that very same deal with him even if she WASN’T glamoured.
There are lots of reasons to rag on Bill. But in all fairness, I don’t think his actions in this minisode can really be added to the list, as he didn’t take advantage of her any more than she would have LIKED to have taken advantage of him. Just my opinion, of course.
We CAN, however, start speculating as to the real reasons behind his stunt proposal. Because up until now, it was a good possibility that he had bought the ring some time ago. We now know, however, that Bill did in fact get the idea to propose to Sookie right after Eric’s bold move in Dallas, and his recent (illuminating) visit with the Queen.
This is NOT a coincidence, and it appears that Bill definitely proposed out of desperation… and maybe even on orders.
That’s a good point about the timing. The proposal was definitely last minute.
I would have liked to see this scene with a real cougar. Someone who could have been competition for Sookie. Mrs. Smallwood was just too easy for Bill to turn down. Maybe someone more like Denise Rattray? Or Mack?
I agree, Renee. If this woman had been depicted as more savvy and less pathetic, we would have been less inclined to say that Bill was taking advantage of her and more inclined to say that he was actually teaching her a lesson.
But… maybe that was the point in Alan Ball writing and casting her the way that he did. I could see that being the case– it makes the underlying message here all the more ambiguous.
I’m sorry, I can’t see it like that.
The woman was very very nervous about seeing a vampire and Bill was doing his best to attract her, for what she fell.
But she was just chating, it wasn’t profesional, but she never tried anything, though. Only when Bill glamoured her to tell him, she did.
I think she went there to be professional, she had a fantasy, though… Which was increased by Bill’s seduction.
Of course when Bill asked her by glamour she told him what she wanted (she could have fantasied too if he was just a good looking man), which she wouldn’t have said or behave if she had been the owner of her actions.
Bill was ready for seducting and he got it far easier because of the kind of woman (and that it was a heterosexual woman) that came to him.
She didn’t deserve it, she wasn’t going to do anything, she did because she was glamour to it. You could she how nervous she was at Bill because of his clothing and his movements in the sofa.
At least if Bill had paid his part of the bargain, I could have forgiven him some.
I see it exactly like you do Dwimordene. The poor woman was nervous and lonely. If he hadn’t glamored her, she never would have said what she was thinking. And then to turn it around on her was almost lower than asking her to give him the ring at cost. If you really think about it, by making her tell him what she was thinking, he was abusing a power that his girlfriend, tries desperately not to use or abuse. Jerk!
Very well said Penny. That smile he gave her at the door was just exactly the smile he gave that poor couple in the 20s. Hypocrite and sociopath. I will say interpreted his “one human vampire” as just going along w/one woman man. He only “dates” one human at a time, so I didn’t consider that a lie necessarily. We haven’t seen him two-timing Sookie dating-wise. Feeding in my mind is something else altogether.
I have to say, I went over to The Nest to read what they said and I lol’d. They “bravoed” his craftiness. Any comment to the contrary was attributed to those wacky psycho Eric-lovers!
Typo….meant to say “I will say ‘I’ interpreted….”
Now that is funny, Kathy! Are they delusional?
Aye yup.
You are brave for visiting those sites…When I visit..I always feel “battered and bruised” They see things so differently than I do…
Nice recap and discussion of the minisode…Thanks all…
Those people at the nest are seriously disturbed, lol….
Bill lies and manipulates, he’s “noble”
Eric lies and manipulates, he’s devious.
We can just laugh it off, they’re vocal but they’re a shrinking minority. Most “on the fence” switched camps already or are on the verge of doing so.
Oh and a bunch are threatening to drop TB if it doesn’t go their way, so to speak. Good riddance?
Oh, it’s so OOC. I’m beginning to think that Alan Ball is just going to end up with a whole mess of angry viewers on his hands this year, since it seems like BOTH camps are feeling a little alienated right now. And the fire will only be stoked by the undoubtedly growing number of people who have read the books.
Whatever! Sign me up for Team Alcide! LOL.
Yes but if the BLs disappear we’d have no comedy.
this whole thing is getting ridiculous on both ends. I am reminded of this quote:
“The Internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another. ”
just substitute “tv shows” for movies.
Yep just came from the Vault and the Nest and Bill worship is in full mode. At the same time they pounce on any hint of a negative view of Bill, telling the rabid eric fans to stop trying to make Bill evil. It is sad and frustrating. While I admit I am biased towards Eric I try to be unbiased. I may not always succeed. But this is appalling. Why do women so need the “romantic hero” to save them? Still? It is 2010 but I don’t think we have evolved much!
At this point, I don’t care whether Alan Ball is going to make Bill “evil” or not– in fact, I really don’t think he is.
I just CAN’T STAND THE WHINING. This shit happened to me with Nate Fisher on Six Feet Under… I was so happy when that crybaby was dead. LOL. His character’s five-season-long existential crisis was MADDENING. David Fisher was the saving grace of that ensemble– though all of the actors’ performances were excellent, so it’s in no way a reflection on them.
It does, however, betray what may be Alan Ball’s soft spot for tedious characters. LOL.
Seriously, though, Bill will certainly be kicked off of his “hero” pedestal this season, even if he doesn’t emerge as the Antichrist. I’d say that’s good enough for me… but the truth is, he’ll still probably annoy the crap out of me. HA.
If he never says Suuhkee again I’ll be pleased. lol.
Well if Sam is the one that took him, Bill is starting the descent in episode 1. Sam is the breaker of masks afterall,
lol… Tomorrow I’m going to make an experiment with some doorm mates, lets see whom they think is the badass of the series… Nothing like minds free from this shit, lol.
I noticed that MAS asked why didn’t Bill just take the ring, and I agree with Sunny that this way Bill has a receipt. But also….the punchline “at cost” is a play on words because after all, Mrs. Smallwood is the one who will be actually paying the cost (financially and in terms of a ruined life/career.)
Right, he might actually be charged with larceny if he only paid $50 for the ring. It is not illegal to sometimes buy goods ‘at cost’. (though in this case it was coercive and immoral) Plus, a receipt for 2k would look better to Sookie if ever came across it.
Yes, I agree. He had to pay something that looked reasonable for it. If Sookie sees the receipt, nothing would look amiss. He called the store and asked them to send someone over, so he couldn’t exactly kill her.
I’m just saying that he COULD have glamoured her to say that she stole the jewelry and sold it on the street. It never would have come back to him– and even if it did, he easily could have lied and said that he bought elsewhere. I mean, that would have been his typical MO for the last 100 years, right? If he can cover up murders and the appropriation of entire houses, I’m pretty sure he could effectively cover up a ring theft.
Anyway, outright stealing the ring certainly would have worked out better for Bill financially– and it also would have destroyed the shop lady’s life WAY more than being reprimanded/fired for making a foolhardy sale would.
As for Sookie asking about it… from all we’ve seen, she’s not exactly the curious type. And besides, you just don’t ask to see the receipt for your engagment ring… which is a good thing, because I’m sure a lot of cheapskates would have very angry wives if that was standard procedure. LOL. Shit, Bill could just lie and say the ring was an old family heirloom.
I don’t mean to beat a dead horse… just trying to play devil’s advocate here! (Maybe quite literally. Ha.)
yes, but he obviously called the business and gave his name and address. It definitely would come back to him.
Isn’t buying stuff far below market value a type of money laundering?
Also I don’t think that Bill’s main motivation was to ruin Mrs. Smallwood’s life. He wanted an expensive and impressive ring at a cheap enough price (and in a way that wouldn’t attract too much suspicion) and couldn’t have cared less about the consequences to the saleswoman. A lot of people mistakenly think that sociopaths don’t have feelings, but they do. However, those emotions are limited strictly to their own wants, needs, and desires and they are incapable of feeling empathy or compassion for others. That’s what separates them from the rest of humanity. We also saw this side of Bill play out in his encounter with the policeman when Sookie and he were returning home from Fangtasia. Yes, the cop was being a bit of a jerk while *doing his job* but Bill still glamored the unlucky policeman into surrendering his weapon (a surefire, pardon the pun, career ending occasion.) While Bill talks a good game about mainstreaming and his struggle to regain his humanity, it’s all a load of BS. As we’ve seen time and time again, he selfishly uses human beings as a means to an end and is completely untroubled by the suffering his actions cause others.
Spot on again, penny.
And yes, you can bet that cop lost his job too.
These are really good points, Penny, and I definitely see the parallels between this situation and the situation with the cop in season one. I think the clear conclusion is that Bill is not as mainstream as he claims to be, or he would not be abusing his vampy powers at all… but I can’t yet make the jump to “Bill is evil” from this. At least, not yet.
Money laundering, by definition, is the washing of “dirty money” into the legal currency system. Dirty money is obtained by selling drugs or by other illegal means.
You know I don’t think I was too wrong when I said I thought she reminded me of Eddie. There are a large number of parallels there; the desperation that can only be cured from the sexual healing from being or being with a vampire, implied sexual favors during a business transaction, and the manipulation by the buyer in Lafayette/Bill that results in the continuation and completion of the transaction. Then there are the homosexual overtones, the ones with Eddie and Lafayette are real, and the ones in this are metaphorical. Hmm.
I hope that helps add to Bill is a latent homosexual himself theory.
Good call, Serena!
I agree– that IS a good observation, Serena!
I think it also drives home the point that HUMANS use sex to get what they want all the time– Bill might have been “manipulating” this woman via his open shirt and glamour, but what’s really the difference between that and a woman walking into a store and using her hot body to coerce the salesman into a discount? Or Lafayette using his charms on Eddie to get him to volunteer his blood?
It’s manipulative… but not illegal… or necessarily “immoral,” is it? (I know that last question sounds rhetorical, but it’s actually half-genuine. LOL.)
I suppose the biggest difference is that there is a lack of free will and consent. It’s not as if Mrs. Smallwood gave Bill the discount because she thought he was a sexpot…she was, literally, forced to do so. If a salesman chooses to offer a pretty woman a discount based on her looks (while it’s unethical) he is still making a choice. Poor Mrs. Smallwood walked into a trap that Bill had set for her, and when she predictably took the bait that served as his justification that by ripping her off, she was getting “what she deserved.” Ultimately, even if she hadn’t tried to flirt with Bill…he still would have found some other justification for his little con job.
Why did Bill even need justification, though, if glamouring her for a discount was the plan in the first place?
It just seems counterproductive to put on the airs, when Bill really didn’t have to go to all that trouble to achieve the same ends. UNLESS Alan Ball was specifically trying to connect the two tactics in the audience’s mind. Like how Lafayette told Eric that he “damn near glamours people already.”
I just felt like there were lots of incidentals that muddied the message being relayed here. Such that I question whether Alan Ball wants us to view ANY of these characters– including Bill– as black or white, but rather in frustrating shades of gray.
Interesting points, MAS. I think Bill Compton needs to justify his actions to himself because everything he does conflicts with his bogus self image of himself as the noble mainstreaming vampire who is desperately attempting to regain his lost humanity. He’s so deluded that I don’t think he is capable of actually seeing himself as evil. What’s more, he consistently makes excuses and blames his behavior on others: he can’t help it…he’s a vampire, Lorena made him do it, Jessica forced him to attack her, Mrs. Smallwood had it coming, etc.
Thats a good point MAS. He was getting ready for the proposal, he’s in a hurry to get out the door that he can’t even pause to close the robe, but he has a conversation with her?
There was no need for justification. We just got one anyway. Or maybe Bill needs one to justify himself to himself.
sorry pennyd, I didn’t see mean to steal your point. I didn’t see it til after.. but yeah. I think the justification was for Bill alone.
Oh, THIS. Self-delusion is a pervasive vice in our society, and Bill illustrates that tendency to a tee. I TOTALLY agree.
I’m just trying to be careful of assuming the same permissive attitudes that the show is presumably railing against– i.e. the tendency to condemn a quality in one character when we are willing to accept in another because we just happen to like that character more.
If we’re going to hate on Bill for manipulating Mrs. Smallwood, we have to be willing to censure Lafayette for manipulating Eddie into handing over his blood. In a way, they’re both examples of exploiting the unique ability to “glamour.”
MAS- I agree totally. My heart broke for Eddie. He was such a vulnerable character who so desperately was reaching out for love, acceptance, and validation. It was extremely and upsetting to watch as Lafayette exploit Eddie’s trusting gentle nature. There was a touch of pathos when Eddie innocently replied, “Why would I go to the bars when I have this?” (this being the blood for sex arrangement that he mistakenly believes is a real relationship.) Now that I think about it…I wonder if there isn’t a parallel between the relationship between Laffy and Eddie and the one between Sookie and Bill?
I felt very sorry for Eddie as well. I didn’t like the con job Lafayette was pulling on Eddie at all. However, at least Eddie made a conscious decision to engage in the “business” deal with Lafayette. I’m not excusing Lafayette though – it was awful to watch. This poor woman didn’t really have choice.
I just want to say that I really don’t think AB will make Bill evil either. I think Bill is going to take a fall – a hard one – and he will be knocked off the pedestal. Let’s not forget that Billie Boy is buying this ring one night after he meets with the Queen (after she says “I look forward to meeting her”) . I must say this again – Bill proposed to Sookie while on order to acquire her for the Queen. He was going to marry her without telling her the truth. I think it’s fair to say that Vampires don’t give shit about human marriages and Bill being married to Sookie won’t stop the Queen from taking her. Again, how convenient that he should “love” her enough to propose. In any case, I do believe that AB will find a way to redeem Bill because he was redeemed in the books to some extent. Bill still remained a part of Sookie’s life after all of this happened. I think AB will do the same.
Her delivery was very reminiscent of Eddie’s when he’s entertaining Laffy.
Here, I found it:
I was sooo nervous, no, more like in tension during the whole thing… It is the best of them… Though… No magic ring.
Bill might not kill her, because her partners know where she went, but she robed her… I didn’t change in order to manipulate her, and then he manipulates her further but glamour… It’s disgusting.
By the way… I didn’t catch something, at 3.40. What is what he says?
Enjoy it.
thanks for the vid DWIM!
Though… No magic ring.
Right, but I’m hoping we’ll get hints that he HAD it enchanted somehow after the purchase.
Oh, I forgot! Great comment penny
This is my day for rants Sunny. So Mr. Ball is trying to breakdown stereotypes. Well he failed miserably depicting Ms. Smallwood. Notice her appearance, retro hairdo, retro clothing, a starry eyed giddy demeanour, not to mention a palpable repressed sexuality. To me this is a stereotypical representation of the aging widow/divorcee, becoming a coquette in the presence of a good looking younger man. She has a job and is presumably self sufficient. Most probably worked, raised a family and paid her taxes her entire adult life. Yet she becomes unglued at the site of his bare chest.
I would say to AB that a more realistic depiction would have been to make her less visible because that is what we become as older women in todays society. Media bombard viewers with beautiful young women flogging all manor of goods. Where is the older, self reliant women who has been successful despite societies emphasis on youth? Ageism Mr. Ball. That is another barrier that should be broken down. It’s ok for men to get old, but not women.
Bobsgran, I am SO with you on that. Part of me felt like Alan Ball may have been subtly mocking his own audience– and I found it a little insulting, to be honest.
When I was having my laugh fest at the first viewing of the ring promo, it was at Bill and his oh so obvious ploy, not the woman.
I may not have made that clear earlier because I was laughing so much at mainstreaming Bill. From the moment he strutted down the stairs it smelled of predator and that jaunty little curl falling on his forehead. He just gives me the cold gruesomes.
He just gives me the cold gruesomes.
Me too. The serial murderer completely disgusts me.
As for the poor lady, a pathetic ‘cougar’ is probably how Bill seees all women her age. Just sayin’.
True Blood Bill creeps me out way more than Book Bill. And, that is saying alot!
AMEN!
I agree with you, Bobsgran. Although I wonder if Serena may have a point that Mrs. Smallwood is a female parallel to Eddie? Never the less, I feel that they should have presented her character differently as we have enough denigratingly stereotypical depictions of older women in the media.
Pennyd, yes Serena has a point, but Eddie wasn’t depicted as a stereotypical gay man. He was very ordinary, average guy. Which also points out that ordinary looking guys in ordinary jobs can be gay. Why the coquette act for the older women? I tend to think you may be right about AB giving a snark to some of us…the a**hole.
1. I wonder how deep is Bill’s love for Sookie if he thinks that she’s not worth of an expensive ring. He wants to make the Perfect Proposal, but at discount. I’m not a sucker for rings and stuff like that, but if you want to play Mr.Fiancé of the Year, you cant’t complain about prices.
2. I wonder how did he buy the tickets and paid the restaurant, as well.
3. I would not criticize Bill for any of these actions if only Bill was honest about his true nature.
Yeah, this still doesn’t address the issues of the dress, the tickets, or the restaurant. AT ALL. I suppose Alan Ball just picked the easiest continuity error to explain… LOL.
Or very possibly, there were others helping Bill with his purchases. I just don’t understand, though, why buying the ring would have fallen to him in the first place, then. So much for “filling in the blanks” right?
I have to wonder if it is significant that Mrs. Smallwood is wearing the same ‘magical’ color as Sookie was on her date?
The ring purchase almost HAD to fall to Bill in case someone tried to trace the purchase.
This minisode will make many many people begin to make questions and question what they thought… It’s its purpuose, I’m sure.
Sunny…I hadn’t even noticed the connection with the color purple until you mentioned it. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Tara also wear a lot of purple in S2 while under the influence of MA?
Exactly!
I disagree at point 3, though… If we saw Bill’s true nature it wouldn’t be the one of a vampire, but of a psicopath. Mmmm… Book Bill forced her on sex almost every time, TB Bill has seem better to her until now, but he is much much worse.
And he might care about Sookie, but I think like more as a possesion… Sometimes when I watch how he interacts with her it reminds me of some husbands talking about or to their wifes or daughters when I was in Tunisia and Egypt (I’m not going against the religion, but the culture nowadays).
Dwim, have you ever seen a movie called The Stepford Wives?
That is what Bill wants Sookie to be.
Yap… and yap…. But more than doing to her, I think he just sees her to be like that.
Hime, I agree completely with what you said! However, I do differ slightly in the fact that Bill can’t show his true nature because he’s playing a role for everyone (including the audience). This isn’t the real Bill and he (and Lorena) know it. It drives me nuts because he says he’s a “one woman” Vampire but his relationship with Sookie is a lie! It’s all based on a lie!
I said this because someone always accuses me to be more indulgent with Eric.
BillLovers’ reaction to this minisode: Oh well! Eric can be a tricky vampire and Bill not?
Well, I tend to sympathize more with someone who is badass and selfish (and maybe a pervert too, LOL) but honest.
[Bill can’t show his true nature because he’s playing a role for everyone (including the audience)]
Exactly. So let the audience be tricked, if that’s what they want to… Live and let die, they say.
I’ve been a lurker here for a while, hope you don’t mind my 2 cents…
First off, let me say that actress was hilarious! I thought she was really funny.
Secondly, and I don’t mean to step on any toes (although i don’t think I will here) and it’s just my opinion, but I fucking hate Bill.
He is so annoying and fake and… smarmy! I don’t know what they’re trying to prove with all that “I’m a one-human vampire” crap and the “I don’t like be sexually objectified” nonsense but I seriously hope it’s just to point out he’s a damn liar! I mean he had to glamor her to get the truth of her feelings out of her. Getting her in trouble would be appropriate!?! She didn’t do anything but find him attractive (lord help her)!!! Gaaah! It’s so frustrating. I haven’t had much to comment on with these minisodes but this one really got me going. She’s just a lonely woman who found a man(vampire) attractive and he totally manipulated her on so many levels. He is slime.
Yuck
Welcome EO!
First off, let me say that actress was hilarious! I thought she was really funny.
She was! she was really good. She’s that lady from Donny Darko, right? The one with the line about ‘sparkle motion’? Lol.
Yeah, I fucking hate him too. I do not NEED TB to “make him evil” for me to view him as such. The Chicago couple? He’s evil, full stop.
Right. She was also played the mother in (my secret favorite movie) Rock Star.
I was also wondering what your take was on the very obvious contrast between the two characters because as I played the minisode again for my husband I found myself smiling and laughing everytime she said something and curling my lip in disgust everytime Bill said anything. Maybe Ms. Smallwood’s honesty and Bill’s lies?
Exactly. The poor lady, she was like an open book.
I also felt sorry for her. To me she looked like a woman whose live is not that easy – she is the employe who takes longer hours why her co workers are already at home.
Some people in here were annoyed because she is portrayed in a stereotyped way. This is not completly wrong but on the other hand it all depends on how you judge her. I felt mainly sympathy because I think her story is sad. She seems to represent all women who are left by their husbands – and replaced by a younger modell – when their “first” beauty lessens. After being left, these women have to look after themselves, gain money and often raise children; a job that is not really appreciated in society. Many divorced women at that age have problems to find a new partner for a serious relationship or at least for sex.
Can someone really condemn Ms. Smallwood for having fantasies about a stranger that opens the door half naked? At least she tried to be professional by asking Bill to get dressed. How could he miss her insecurity? To me Bill was acting unprofessional because I think Ms S. acted different if Bill was already dressed with his usual conservative clothes.
I read the posts on the B sites and I have to say that I was shocked. A lot of people there think that Ms S. deserves the loss of her economic existence because she treated Bill like a object. I hate these “she-is-a-slut-thus-she-deserves-it logic.
Sarah, I agree with all you say about Mrs. Smallwood. She is a ‘throwaway’ in society and Mr. “Noble” ruthlessly took advantage of her for personal gain. He IS a sociopath.
I hate these “she-is-a-slut-thus-she-deserves-it logic.
This is their answer for everything. It’s not Bill, it’s always the other person because they are *insert hateful judgement here*
I hear what you are saying Sarah, but she doesn’t represent all women who are left by husbands for a younger model. I felt sympathy for her yes, but the point is she doesn’t represent all divorced/widowed women. And that was my main objection. That is societies perception of divorced/widowed women, because that is what many want to believe, and we have been fed by media. It was the writers views or AB views, don’t know but if you are going to crow about breaking down stereotypes look to your own house first. Yes we older women appreciate a purdy face, but it doesn’t mean we are desperate enough to act on it. If you have ever been placed in a niche simply because you are female, older, widowed, divorced or whatever
you may get a better sense of what I mean.
See, I view it as AB humanizing the ‘stereotype’ as he is doing with a lot of these characters. I love Mrs. Smallwood!. She is hella funny–I loved that exasperated “Goddamnit!” lol– and obviously still alive with dreams and sensuality. We just have to face it–there ARE women like Mrs. Smallwood–divorced, in her 50′s and horny with limited options romantically as well as financially– and it’s no fault of their own how they are viewed by the media. WE have to look past all that to the heart of the person.
The slight look of disgust on Bill’s face when they were sitting on he sofa pissed me off as well. If it had been a pretty young thing at the door, who came on to Bill, the perception and the tone would have been entirely different.
I also hate the “this-woman-has-a-libido-therefore-she-is-a-slut” logic.
BLs have called Sookie a slut before as well. And now Ms Smallwood? She gets so nervous at the sight of a half-naked man, I’m pretty sure she couldn’t handle any requirements for “slutdom” (What are they, anyway?) from a mental standpoint.
To bobsgran:
I understand perfectly well what you want to say and I know a lot of older divorced/widowed women who are so not Ms. S. Why does AB not portray such a woman? I think this is simple. If we had a more self reliant and not so desperate woman the whole minisode did not work. By showing her stereotyped in obviously sexual need, AB revealed the bigottry of some Bs who think that the loss of economic existence is a fair punishment for acting like Ms. S.
I must respectfully disagree. Mrs. Smallwood behaved in an unprofessional manner, even before Bill glamoured more forthright statements out of her. If it was a male salesman who was obviously coming on to a female client with the reverse version of this woman’s comments (my husband had a small dick, your eyes are so blue, shove that ring on my finger, etc.) I believe that the inappropriate nature of this conduct would have been more obvious.
It speaks to our double-standards as a society that, when it comes from this woman, we think it’s okay– but if a dumpy, middle-aged man was doing the same thing we’d probably think he was a bit of a creep. (I’m admittedly guilty of the same visceral reactions.) And I know that we’ve compared Mrs. Smallwood to Eddie– and I think the parallels hold– but the big difference is that Lafayette was NOT Eddie’s business client, and the premise of that association was very clearly sexual. Still, Lafayette was “glamouring” Eddie to get what he wanted, which very much applies to this situation as well.
The real problem here is that Bill used Mrs. Smallwood’s behavior as an excuse to justify something that he probably would have done anyway– instead of taking the high road– which betrays some insincerity on his part. In other words, I can’t get mad at a man for “insulting” me by ogling my tits if I’m going to take the discount he’s offering me for “the view” anyway. That would make me A HYPOCRITE.
Yes but MAS, you have to realize Eddie was getting something he wanted out of his arrangement with Laffy. Eddie was fully aware that Laffy was a prostitute, for sure, and he may have wanted a little assurance that Laffy really wanted him and not the blood, (I imagine a lot of clients have asked prostitutes: “you would want me even if I wasn’t paying you, right?” they know the ‘yes’ is a lie but they need to hear it) but he wasn’t so stupid as to believe it WAS NOT a business arrangement and his eyes were open. Poor Mrs. Smallwood got nothing out of this deal with Bill except the probable loss of her job and thousands of dollars out of her pocket, and this happened because Bill literally glamoured her and blackmailed her with the info. gleaned.
And yes, she asked if Bill wanted to cover up. And we can turn the situation around on him by saying that he chose NOT to, and call THAT inappropriate.
BUT… if I went up to a sales clerk at a jewelry store wearing a very low-cut top and he asked me if I wanted to put on a sweater before he showed me some rings, I’d be tempted to slap him in the face. You can say that I left the house KNOWING I would get the reaction I did… but it doesn’t make the people who deal with me any less responsible for their own self-restraint.
Not that it matters that much, but I don’t think that Eddie REALLY thought Lafayette was interested in him for anything more than the blood. It’s just another example of the way we rationalize things to make ourselves feel better.
Eddie told himself that so he wouldn’t feel so pathetic. Just like some rich 80-year-old man with a Playmate girlfriend may try to tell himself that she’s REALLY interested in HIM… but they both know the truth. It just makes them BOTH feel better to pretend otherwise.
And it’s interesting that you mention this, because I was thinking after I wrote my comment about how Lafayette told Eric that he was a whole lot of things and “a hooker dead last.”
Ahem… sorry Lafayette, but you is a HOOKER. I don’t care if Eddie was giving him blood, and not money, but that’s still a sex-for-stuff arrangement. And it was a very regular one for him, too, as Eddie was obviously his sole source of V, and he was an established dealer.
Bill was engaging in his own form of prostitution in this minisode. But God forbid he actually call a spade a spade, and admit that using your sexuality to get “things” is exactly what that is. Instead he acted all indignant, while enjoying the spoils of hookerdom. LOL.
Frankly, what’s the big deal? I’d be fine with what Bill did if he actually SEXED the woman, and didn’t get all indignant about it. (Aside from the obvious ironies of him buying an ENGAGEMENT ring… whole ‘nother rant there!) Anyway, prostitution is the OLDEST profession. Whatevs.
The people who look down their noses at it have no problem playing the moral authority. But then they turn around and put lipstick on a pig, by doing the same damn thing under a different pretense. GAH.
The big deal is she had her life ruined, unless you think she won’t lose her job and have to pay back thousands of dollars? Most prostitutes do their job and then get paid and go on their way, neither party the worse and both having got what they wanted. In this case Bill got all of the advantages and Mrs. Smallwood got nothing but ‘trouble’.
By the way, I didn’t read it as Bill blackmailing her with the info. She said “I’ll get in trouble” and he said “which is only appropriate” at which point she let out a (very titillated) gasp, as Bill smiled and it cut to credits.
I think Bill glamoured her to think they actually DID have sex– thus achieving the same ends without getting his hands dirty. So in that respect she DID get something out of it… because I think he asked her what she “hoped for” in order to get an idea of what kind of memory to leave her with. He said “well that’s not gonna happen” in order to make her feel like she was irresistable and able to seduce him with her (obviously nonexistent) feminine charms. I think he probably gave her her fantasy… and then took the discount.
That’s still taking advantage, mind you. But if you look at it that way, the more interesting element of this episode is that it reveals Bill’s obvious finesse with the ladies. As in, Sophie-Anne sent BILL for a reason.
Again, I think he DID give her something in the whole situation. It’s still shady, yes, especially since Bill used his vampy powers to weasle his way out of actually giving up the goods. But the principle of the thing– assuming my interpretation of the off-camera events is correct– is the same.
But maybe my interpretation is wrong, and then it’s a whole different ball of wax. But I drew the conclusion that I did because her response to Bill’s “it’s only appropriate” wasn’t one of fear (as we saw from the limo driver and the cop) but one of outright giddiness.
That Mrs. Smallwood is a naughty, naughty girl. LOL.
What did he give her, exactly? A false memory of sex? How does that help her when she’s losing her job and paying back thousands of dollars? The only thing such a false memory will do is cause her humiliation when she’s standing in the unemployment line and she didn’t even DO anything. Her ‘outright giddiness’ at being told it was ‘only appropriate’ she get into trouble was due to her being glamoured—think about that for a minute–Bill has forced her to degrade herself in this instance by making her GRATEFUL THAT SHE WILL GET INTO TROUBLE for something she did not even do.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I see Mrs. Smallwood as the victim here, and Bill as the perp who defrauded her. She wasn’t being ‘naughty’ by failing to completely hide her attraction to him–especially considering he was sending out flaming red flag signals with his refusal to close his robe–and it wasn’t her fault that he forced her to explicity admit to the attraction and then used it against her.
The limo driver and the cop were both glamoured, and they were scared pee-your-pants shitless NOT titillated. True, Mrs. Smallwood DIDN’T do anything… but she WOULD have, and I think the confession Bill glamoured out of her was written in there to demonstrate as much (and in a very hilarious manner, I might add).
She wanted to be a bad girl and Bill played along… which makes him a gigilo. And a slightly crooked one at that, since he didn’t actually have to do any “work” to get his payoff. (Then again, that’s kind of the definition of a gigilo. Ha.) But as honorable as he is, you couldn’t possibly imagine that he is a CHEATER, could you? (I guess it depends on what your definition of the word “is” is… LOL.)
Bill is obviously experienced in con artistry. That much we agree on. But we do disagree about the subtext of this minisode. And it’s okay! If everyone agreed all the time, the conversation here would suck. And it obviously doesn’t. LOL.
Oh and to add, a false memory of sex would make desperate, awkward Mrs. Smallwood feel like an irresistable siren who scored the attentions of a hot vampire. (Just like Eddie clung to the belief that sexay Lafayette really wanted him.) And for a lot of lonely women, that would totally be WORTH losing a job over.
In short, she wanted Bill to screw her six ways ’till Sunday. He said CERTAINLEH NAWT! as he is a very upright and engaged one-human-vampire. BUT… maybe if she was willing to give him the ring at cost…
I’m sure that will be a huge comfort to her when she’s getting sued or criminally charged for practically giving away the ring and then can’t find a job because she gave away merchandise in exchange for ‘sex’ she didn’t actually have.
Higher level sales clerks are typically given carte blanche to negotiate in order to “make the sale”– I’m fairly certain that half the time when they say “let me check with my manager,” they only do it to make you THINK that you’re getting some amazing deal when you really aren’t. It’s understood in that business.
Sales clerks WANT to negotiate with you, because if you don’t make a purchase, they don’t get a commission. Better to knock a few bucks off and make SOMETHING, then to refuse to negotiate and come away empty handed.
Anyway, Mrs. Smallwood could easily lose her job for exercising poor judgment– or simply be demoted off of sales. But I strongly doubt she’d end up in jail, as she didn’t STEAL from the company, she just blew the sale.
Now it would be a WHOLE different story if he took the ring from her without paying anything at all, or if she sold it to him UNDER the company’s cost price. THEN she could– and probably would– end up in jail. And no one in their right mind would agree to consequences like that.
Businesses offer their products to at cost to “friends” all the time. I get at-cost products from my clients as a perk for providing my freelance services. Companies obviously don’t want you exploiting that, as they need to make money. But to find out that a certain piece of jewelry was sold at cost on a single occasion is not exactly a business-breaking discovery.
You’re right, though– she might get fired. But if she had to choose between keeping her boring job as a jewelry store clerk and being ravished (maybe for the first time in her life) by a handsome vampire, I think it was made fairly clear which choice she would make.
Yes, but first of all sales clerks, high level or not, rarely want to ‘negotiate’ to give away their merchandise at cost, which means NO PROFIT whatsoever. In this case, thousands of dollars in profit were lost. Secondly, Mrs. Smallwood did not want to negotiate this deal she was mind-controlled into doing it. Third, I reckon she knew what she was talking about when she said she would get into trouble.
And let’s not forget, even if she was fantasizing about sex with a vampire and awkwardly flirting, she was scared SHITLESS the whole time!!
Well of course she’s going to get into trouble. But “trouble” is a very nebulous term in this case. “Getting into trouble” at work could mean getting a slap on the wrist, or it could mean getting fired. But I don’t think it means getting arrested or being sued for thousands of dollars– that’s a little bit more than just “trouble.” That’s deep doo-doo. LOL.
Anyway, I’ll concede that she didn’t technically make “the choice” because she was glamoured. But I think it was strongly implied by Alan Ball that she WOULD have made that choice if it was presented to her. (I think that’s why he scripted it such that Bill asked what Mrs. Smallwood REALLY wanted.) But obviously, he couldn’t show Bill actually HAVING SEX with the woman, so from a plot perspective glamouring achieved the same ends by different means.
Well… he COULD have shown Bill having sex with her. But there would have been rioting at the HBO headquarters. LOL. Alan Ball definitely wouldn’t have revealed that level of transgression in a minisode that a lot of people won’t even watch… so better to just hint at it in order to get your point across.
Sigh. Just try to imagine yourself in her place. If YOU gave away merchandise at cost at your job, unauthorized, what would happen to you? At the very least you would get fired, and it would go on your employment record making it difficult for you to find another job. This is a serious consequence for a woman in her 50′s like Mrs. Smallwood, who seemed new to the job anyway–which might explain her slightly ‘unprofessional’ attitude. She’s probably been a SAHM all these many years and was lucky to have the job in the first place.
Now, regardless of what happens to her it does not excuse Bill’s callous defrauding of a ‘poor widow’ for that is exactly what she represents here. She is one of society’s ‘throwaway’s’ a ‘least of these’ and Bill is a powerful vampire (with powerful connections). He USED his power over her for personal gain, bottom line, full stop.
I don’t think she was scared, Kathy. Nervous and flustered… but not scared. That’s just my opinion, of course.
And a good lay MORE than makes up for a lost commission– even if it didn’t REALLY happen. I’d say Mrs. Smallwood just ate that sausage and enjoyed it. LOL.
It doesn’t change the fact that Bill shouldn’t be glamouring people for self-interested reasons at all– even if there’s no outstanding harm in it. It’s still grossly manipulative… and contrary to his upright, mainstream image.
Sookie most certainly would NOT pat him on the back for getting a good deal here– because even (and maybe even especially) without the glamouring, Bill’s actions were still totally sleazy. And that’s why Sookie will never find out about them… at if she somehow did, he would just rationalize it to her in the same way it appears he has rationalized it to himself.
I seriously disagree with you here. First of all, a lost commision is hardly what happened here. The OWNERS lost PROFIT which means someone is going to pay, and that someone is Mrs. Smallwood. Second, you think women should go around having a ‘good lay’ with clients, who could then blackmail them into better deals, jobs and reputations and commissions be damned, and it would all be ‘worth it’?
Sunny, I don’t mean to be argumentative, but employees score their friends products at cost ALL THE TIME. That part, to me, is just not that big of a deal.
But you’re right. He used his powers for self-interested purposes. And that’s NOT okay– especially because it goes against what he would have other people believe about him.
Yes, and I’ve actually witnessed a girl get fired for doing this, unauthorized. And it wasn’t Mrs. Smallwoods choice to do so to begin with. If it were, I could see your point but she did it against her will.
No Sunny, what I’m saying is that Mrs. Smallwood was obviously a lonely and undersexed woman. Just like Eddie was a lonely and undersexed vampire.
Mrs. Smallwood had the means to negotiate a “deal” with Bill in exchange for sex– in the form of a ring. (Not even for free, mind you– just at cost.) Just like Eddie had the means to negotiate a deal with Lafayette in exchange for sex– in the form of his blood. And I think that, just like Eddie, Mrs. Smallwood would have had no qualms striking that deal if it meant feeling sexy and wanted, even for a single night. And even given the consequences it might carry. (In fact, I’m sure Eddie would have gotten into even WORSE trouble than Mrs. Smallwood would if word got out that he was giving away his blood to be sold by a V dealer.)
Lonely people are often willing to take risks like that, because being lonely sucks.
So in that respect, YES, Mrs. Smallwood was a perfect target for Bill’s gigolo-ish machinations– and the “glamour” aspect was used so that Bill could carry out this plan without actually having sex. But I think that– especially in light of Lafayette’s “I damn near glamour people already” comment– it’s clear that this deal wasn’t ENTIRELY one-sided.
Is that exploitation? I suppose… in the same way that prostitution is. But in arrangements like this, it’s a case of MUTUAL exploitation– NOT fraud. The only way in which this is fraud is that Bill didn’t ACTUALLY have sex with the woman… but if he DID glamour a memory of a steamy night into her mind, in this case, it’s just as good. (Or not… but that’s a whole ‘nother conversation!)
She may ‘obviously’ be a lonely and undersexed woman, but Bill USED that against her. None of what you say changes the fact that the ‘deal’ that was struck was detrimental to her and it was against her will. You are assuming that because she was lonely and undersexed she would have been willing to give away merchandise at cost of her own free will. Bottom line, you are assuming that Mrs. Smallwood would willingly throw her ethics out the window because she is lonely and undersexed and that is a stereotype of the worst kind.
I have to agree with Sunny on this one.
Like I said somewhere up there..Sookie is privy to people’s thoughts and fantasies all the time, but she doesn’t act on them. Bill, by glamoring the poor woman, got to read her mind and took advantage of that.
So what if she was lonely. She didn’t walk in there and say, have sex with me and I’ll give you a good deal. She was uncomfortable when she walked in the door. Nervously ran off at the mouth. But that doesn’t mean she deserved to be cheated.
I know you don’t mean it this way, but it’s almost like saying about a woman molested at a bar “well she came into the bar dressed that way, she was asking for it.”
THANK YOU.
And yes, it would be like Sookie reading some guys mind and finding out he’s having an affair and using it against him–WHICH SHE HAS DONE. However, personal gain was not the motive and she didn’t defraud him in any way, just forced him to do his job.
You all realize that that’s EXACTLY what you’re saying about Bill answering the door with his robe open, right?
And for the record, I never said that Mrs. Smallwood deserved to be CHEATED. I’m saying that I’m not so sure she was CHEATED at all.
She was fed an illusion that, it seems, she accepted WITH EXCITEMENT. Just like Eddie was more than willing to accept Lafayette’s lame attempt at making him feel special as genuine.
I don’t see how you can say she wasn’t cheated. She was cheated out of a commision, her employer was cheated out of a profit, and she is now likely cheated out of a job and a lot of future income.
Eddie chose of his own free will to accept Laffy’s attempt to make him feel special. Nothing that happened to Mrs. Smallwood arose from any choices she made, particularly not the ‘excitement’ she felt at being told it was ‘only appropriate’ that she get into trouble.
And to put it another way, let’s imagine how this scene would have played out if Mrs. Smallwood was a Janet Reno lookalike butch lesbian, who walked in all no-nonsense and ready to sell some rings.
The answer is that it WOULDN’T have played out at all. Alan Ball COULD have written it that way, but he DIDN’T. Not because Bill would have been any less capable of glamouring her to get the ring at cost– but because Bill would have had nothing to offer HER in return.
No, I’m not saying that at all. Because she didn’t DO anything to him. She asked him twice if he would like to put on a shirt. She was trying desperately not to look at his chest.
I just watched it again. And no where did she tell him she wanted sex with him until he glamored her. She told the joke about her husband out of nervousness and she was appalled. When she said “What ever it takes.” she realized it could be taken another way, and kicked herself. She is clearly nervous through the whole thing. Her comment on his eyes I do not consider a sexual come on. His eyes ARE beautiful and they distracted her. Her only transgression was “jam it.” And even that was fairly innocent. She only asked for sex AFTER he glamored her to tell him what she was thinking.
Hell, if fantasizing about having sex with someone you’re having a conversation with is a reason to be cheated, my bank accounts should be cleared right now!
And then he told her it ‘was not going to happen’, so I have mega doubts that he even glamoured her with fake sex memories.
And NO, she didn’t do anything to him at all, and for this she got cheated and had her dignity degraded.
She was flirting with him, Kathy. Albeit very badly… LOL… but she was flirting with him.
And for this it is ‘only appropriate’ that she get into trouble?
I guess what I mean is, if she walked into the house and threw herself on him and said “Take me like a Pirate,” that would be one thing. Bill would have been justified in glamoring her to keep her off, though not to cheat her. But the woman I see in this minisode would never have come on to him had she not been glamored. Even giving her a “glamored” memory of being ravished is really creepy, as the woman I see, would be mortified remembering it afterword.
I agree. She was mortified at herself for her several nervous faux pas. I can’t even imagine the humiliation she will feel when she gets fired for ‘coming on’ to a client and ‘desperately’ trying to get him to sleep with her in exchange for giving him merchandise at cost. Poor lady. After all, she won’t realize she was glamoured she’ll think she really behaved that way.
Sunny, in order for him to achieve what Lafayette did with Eddie– that is, working her up to the position where she would be persuaded to offer the ring to him at cost for a “favor”– Bill would have had to come on MUCH more strongly than he did. There would have had to have been AT LEAST kissing involved, if not much more, to go in for “the close” as we marketing types like to call it. LOL.
*clearing my throat in preparation for a sarcastic assertion*
And we all know Bill would NEVER do that. Because THAT would require CHEATING on SOOKIE. And of course, Bill LOVES Sookie. So he would NOT cheat on her.
Oh, I agree, Kathy. It was sleazy. And that woman was DEFINITELY played. Which says a lot about Bill’s character all by itself.
There’s flirting and then there’s flirting. She was not flirting with him to have sex. And when was she blatantly flirting? When she told him her name was “Bushy?” She was so nervous she didn’t know what she was saying. Every time something came out of her mouth she was mortified. And trying to joke it away only dug her deeper. She did not have any other agenda when she walked into that house other than to sell him a ring.
When I met my favorite lead singer for the first time, I was an idiot! I tried to be funny and I just ended up being odd. And that’s how I saw her reaction to him. Face to face with her first vampire and he’s a very attractive half dressed man, she was tap dancing to regain her composure.
Do you really think she’ll be mortified, Sunny? Or do you think she’ll feel like the free-spirited wild woman that she is in her FANTASIES– but is too afraid to be in her real life?
I can see how this whole thing would be terrible if Mrs. Smallwood walked in there with absolutely NO interest in being ravished by a vampire like she was the heroine in a romance novel. But if she actually thinks she did that, it COULD be a very freeing experience for her.
That’s precisely what gigolos are put on this planet to do. Fulfill a woman’s fantasies. And they’re VERY good at it, or they wouldn’t have pots to piss in.
And I’d be remiss if I didn’t emphasize that this is EXACTLY WHAT BILL IS DOING TO SOOKIE. Which is why this minisode is so revealing.
What the minisode with Sookie, Lafayette, and Tara showed us is that Sookie is falling prey to the SAME wiles that Mrs. Smallwood did. Except Bill didn’t NEED to use glamouring with her… just like he wouldn’t NEED to with Mrs. Smallwood. (But he did because he’s a one-human-vampire and all. *snort*)
Even so, Sookie has been fed an illusion… just like Bill glamoured an illusion into Mrs. Smallwood. And Sookie is so in love with this illusion, that she has never once bothered to question whether it might actually be just that: AN ILLUSION.
Sookie may be the victim of a “con”… but her desperate desire to believe that it’s true has made her the perfect dupe. Only, sadly, Sookie has MUCH more to lose that Mrs. Smallwood. And we will no doubt learn that in time.
[And then he told her it ‘was not going to happen’, so I have mega doubts that he even glamoured her with fake sex memories.]
It’s true that this is not obvious. But I DO think that it’s implicit. If you watch the minisode again, you’ll notice that when Bill says “well that’s not going to happen,” the line is delivered in a very straightforward manner. And well, it should be… because of course it’s not going to HAPPEN.
But after he says that, a switch goes off, and he puts on his “play acting” voice, to say “because I am a one-woman-man.” BLAH BLAH BLAH. I’m SURE you noticed, Sunny. I could almost FEEL you rolling your eyes when I was watching it! LOL
Anyway, everything he said after that sounded like role playing. As in: “Now Mrs. Smallwood… you KNOW I couldn’t possibly do that. Because as you can see, I am taken, and looking for the perfect engagement ring for my intended. I am NOT a man who would do such a thing, and whatever would give you that idea? Shame on you for thinking such scandalous thoughts, and for coming in here with such an agenda.” (And yes, she DID say that it was what she “hoped to accomplish” that evening.)
And then he leans in… presumably to propose an arrangement that would suit them BOTH. Which is that he gets the ring at cost… and she gets to leave believing that a piratical (new word alert! LOL) vampire did dirty things to her all night.
And if you’re going to be a “naughty girl” who does “dirty things” with “pirate vampires” it’s only appropriate that you get in a little trouble for it. (That delivery was UNDENIABLY cheeky.) Hence the fact that when the scene ended, she wasn’t upset or afraid, but gasping with delight.
But you’re right. We DON’T know for sure what happened after the camera cut. So if he just sent her on her way without further glamouring, I would have a totally different opinion of the situation. But it seemed to me that he was trying– in a TOTALLY twisted way– to be “fair.”
{BUT… if I went up to a sales clerk at a jewelry store wearing a very low-cut top and he asked me if I wanted to put on a sweater before he showed me some rings, I’d be tempted to slap him in the face. You can say that I left the house KNOWING I would get the reaction I did… but it doesn’t make the people who deal with me any less responsible for their own self-restraint.}
MAS, I think this situation is a little bit different though. If she had invited the salesman to her home and greeted him wearing pants, an open robe, and a very revealing lingerie top, then she’s definitely going to give him the wrong impression. I’m not saying that the saleswoman wasn’t hitting on Bill to begin with, but he did his best to give her mixed signals. Bill is not a stupid man, he knows human beings and he knew what she was doing. This alone should have prompted him to throw a shirt on and make it clear that she was there to do business and nothing else. His demeanor could have been more professional.
I definitely understand what you’re saying though and I agree that Bill needed this little ruse in order to justify his actions to himself.
Totes agree, VL. The pretense of seduction was very puposefully established– and it would be ridiculous to ignore it. I’m just pointing out that Mrs. Smallwood wasn’t an entirely unwilling participant… in fact, she was playing the coquette right along with Bill, in her own awkward and inexperienced way. Which is probably exactly what he WANTED her to do.
In fact, I have to wonder whether Bill didn’t choose HER specifically to deal with… or, rather, if whoever obviously arranged the appointment FOR him didn’t.
{I’m just pointing out that Mrs. Smallwood wasn’t an entirely unwilling participant… in fact, she was playing the coquette right along with Bill, in her own awkward and inexperienced way. Which is probably exactly what he WANTED her to do. }
Yeah, I can definitely see that and I do agree that it probably wouldn’t have been that hard (no pun intended lol) to get her to willingly participate. I think where the problem lies is that he glamoured it out of her instead of just coming on to her outright and then making the deal. It’s the glamouring part that is the problem. Maybe if he hadn’t glamoured her, she would have continued flirting but it never would have gone any further than that on her part. He would have just purchased the ring and she would have gone on her merry way. lol
OMG I just watched the video…. WOW, just wow. Why is it they only see the ‘One woman vampire, one human vampire’ line, when the rest of his mannerisms and words reek. I agree with everything people have said, i’m still a bit shocked at some friends being attacked over on the Nest over a very intelligent post they made of this, so I’m a little p*ssed atm
yeah I’m not big on being accused of hate. I felt the points I raised were fairly valid if a little negative towards Bill and instead of reasoned responses I just got dogs abuse hurled at me and the threat of being banned. Big whoop! Like being banned from the nest is going to make me cry OR make their site any better.
I thought I was eloquent and I was definitely a LOT more neutral and restrained in my opinions out of respect to their favoured god but all I got in return was to be called rabid, hateful and creepy. Then they complain about how visitors are so nasty – maybe if they were a little more tolerant their standard of visitor would improve. Just sayin’.
Jan, I can sympathize. You wouldn’t believe some of the unbelievably stupid crap a couple people have posted about this blog and me personally. I just ignore them because people who like to wallow in ignorance depress me.
I’m really sorry that you were treated so shabbily. I read your comments and I found them restrained, fair, and completely respectful.
Aww, it’s all good. I actually enjoy being on an enemies list!
Yeah, Jan, that was majorly unfair. You raised legitimate questions, and they had no business shutting you down like that. It’s not like you showed up writing ERIC RULEZ AND BILL DROOLZ.
Please. I understand if they interpreted the scene differently, but they should at least extend the same respect to you in acknowledging that the events in the minisode weren’t especially straightforward one way or the other.
That was you! OMFG… Don’t physically ever get into a room with them..
On another site..one of them wished for a gun (paraphrasing)..I stopped reading.. What irks me the most is alot of these sites are HBO sponsored.. That why I enjoy here and SVB..
Alright back to my question…sorry if I’ve tuned in late and this is old rehash…During S2 I alwyas made excuses for Bill’s make-up..I thought they hired a new make up artist who like Kabuki or something..then I blamed my TV..blah blah…
Was this all part of AB’s plan? Did he make Bill so awful that he wanted people to notice the mask?
Indeed! As Renee pointed out elsewhere, the make-up was so thick it brought to mind a literal ‘actors mask’.
I read these comments…Firstly, I admire you for having the courage and patience to talk with these people I struggled if I should join the discussion but when I read their comments I felt that all reason is far behind them. Especially the ban thing shocked me. I accept that really rude people can be banned from blogs but to ban someone because he has another point of view is totalitarian.
Fantastic post Pennydreadful!! I loved it! I haven’t read through the comments yet so I hope I don’t repeat anything that was said but my first thoughts were:
1. If he is supposed to be mainstreaming, why is he glamouring her?? Isn’t that called cheating? He could have just negotiated with her for a better price. Maybe even helped her in getting some loving at Fangtasia. lol She is based out of Shreveport so it would be convenient.
2. I loved what you said about the robe – you are spot on!!! AB has said that Bill was being manipulative in the “Release Me” scene you mentioned. How appropriate that he was wearing it in this minisode (which AB wrote) while he was manipulating this poor woman as well.
3. Put a shirt on Bill! I mean really! Do you really greet guests in a robe with no shirt on??? Especially knowing that it’s a woman who is coming over – and you are expecting her arrival! Another thing, when she hinted that she felt a little uncomfortable and that maybe he should put a shirt on – he refused to do it! Honestly, it takes 2 seconds to throw a shirt on.
4. He glamours her into telling him the truth and then uses it against her in order to get a better price for the ring. What a douche.
Yes, it is “cheating.” If Bill is going to be a manwhore, he should at least give the lady what she wants. LOL. The fact that he was able to achieve his ends and remain “faithful” to Sookie was a convenient technicality. But it’s still a case of him using his ability to glamour for self-serving purposes– just like Lafayette did with Eddie.
All this is supposing that “seducing” her for a deal was his intention from the get-go. And I think that pretense was left ambiguous on purpose.
He’s just like a lot of other hypocrites. He thinks if he adheres to the ‘letter’ of the law it absolves him of following the ‘spirit’.
Totally, Sunny. That’s also why I think he probably implanted a memory in Mrs. Smallwood’s head (after the scene cut off) that they had sex and she gave him a discount in return, instead of actually having sex with her to get said discount (which may have been how he did things pre-Sookie).
I’m not going to hold his manwhorishness against him any more than I would hold it against Lafayette. BUT glamouring to maintain some literal notion of fidelity– while having the exact same intentions in the grand scheme of things– is just plain hypocritical.
This may not necessarily make Bill a criminal. But it doesn’t speak very well of his character, either. At least Lafayette ADMITS that a lot of his choices are less than honorable– just like Eric does. And that’s what makes them halfway respectable.
It’s not that Bill would do a thing like this that makes him suspect… it’s the fact that he would do it behind Sookie’s, and everyone’s, back only to preach the virtues of “mainstreaming” later.
MAS- Anyway that the scene played out, Bill still comes off as hypocritical and sleazy…but you made a very valid point. We’ve all been glamored by his antics into ignoring the *real* questions: What’s the reason for this insane shotgun wedding? Who’s financing the happy couple’s nuptials? And more importantly, did Bill have a “romantic” honeymoon in New Orleans planned ? One that perhaps included a grand tour of QSA’s palatial estate?
It’s not just the cheating, the hypocresy and so… It is the lack of principles.
I hated a lot what Laffy did, and I didn’t pitty him when I saw him taken in the basement (though I thought it was the fots for a long time). At leas with him, you could see how he new he was doing bad. Normal people can be manipulative and bad, but they have principles and they now (sometimes right away and sometimes the don’t realise it until later) when they do wrong, even if they don’t really care. The problem comes when someone thinks he is doing good because he doesn’t have principles, he believes he is doing right. That would be another difference between Eric an Bill. Eric can do whatever, but he I’m sure (because we saw her FEELING) that Eric knows when something is good or evil, though he may not care nor feel remorse, but he knows and so he can control. Bill would never feel remorse, but he neither has control, because he does good, always.
{The fact that he was able to achieve his ends and remain “faithful” to Sookie was a convenient technicality. }
Ye, and this in essence is the problem with Bill. His reasoning when it comes to his behavior is ALWAYS a convenient technicality. There is always an excuse to be had.
Did anyone else get s2 today? When Sookie asks Bill if there’s anything else he’s hiding, I thought the expert info would highlight Uncle B’s murder, but instead it went to the Chicago murder. I thought that was very interesting, especially when considering today’s video. Bill in his 1920s dressing gown using his seductive charm to con an unsuspecting woman brings Prohibition Era Bill into the present. That’s what Bill is hiding from Sookie.
Also, when Sookie confronts Bill about keeping Jessica a secret, the speech she gives him about being able to handle more than he thinks reminded me of Sookie’s challenge to Eric in the promo. Bill discounted what she said. Eric won’t, and Sookie will be able to prove herself to him.
I’ve had s2 for about 5 days now, and i have only been able to watch it in normal mode cos the hubby hadn’t seen it yet. I think i will start again with it tonight and run those thru. Maybe they set it up to help connect the season together for the viewers that will only just buy the DVD and not theorize like we all do??
RE Sookie’s speech: Isn’t in the voice promo that Eric tells her not to under estimate herself??? Beel would never get her to challenge herself view.
Well, it’s definitely not a connect the dots. The expert info informs us that the furnishings in Bill’s room are a collection of antebellum antiques and family heirlooms. It doesn’t bother to point out that the new bedding was bought for the express purpose of defloweing the virgin next door.
I think Karl might be hinting at Tara’s supernatural powers though, and he’s confirming some of the inferences I made about MA.
Is it me, or is Ms. Smallwood also wearing a lavender suit?
Yes! Kudos to all who caught the fact that she’s wearing the same color as Sookie’s dress. This poor woman is being manipulated and so is Sookie.
the way Bill sidled right up to her on the couch really creeped me out.
Yeah, he scrunched right up to her with his robe wide open. Was he wearing any pants? I have have no idea.
{Yeah, he scrunched right up to her with his robe wide open. Was he wearing any pants? I have have no idea.}
This made me LOL! Hahahahaha!
he was all cuddled up with that poor woman, yet he’s telling her she is behaving inappropriately. just plain ew. Bill makes me seethe. perhaps the fact that i spent 4 long years in a relationship with a sociopath is also contributing to my hatred…
i will at least give him the benefit of the doubt, and hope he’s wearing boxers at least o.o
So yeah, I’ve just totally skeeved myself out thinking that one over. ewww.
welcome Feather!
“Mrs. Smallwood…how dare you objectify me! I’ll have you know that I conduct all my business transactions pantsless. Now would you mind if I dimmed the lights and put on a Barry White cd?”
Bwahahaha!
Penny: That was fucking funny.. maybe me lol so hard. The whole made me laugh but that was the cake.
me take on things (from svb)
I think they did a great job in this promo to show that people will only see what they want to see. My take on things:
Bill tells the women that it is justifiable that she get in trouble for trying to come onto him. He glamors her into telling him what she wants, and then bribes her with that information. He cheap out with the wedding ring of his beloved, and refuses to cover up even after the women suggests him too.
All i’ve been hearing on the TB sites is that Bill is such a romantic, because he told the women that he was a ‘One women man, a one human vampire’. This minisode just shows us people will get what they want out of things, ignoring the big pink elephant in the center of the room, cos that sucker is just to plain big to hid in the corner.
Exactly. They are listening to what he is saying and totally ignoring his actions, which always belie his noble cheesies..er, I mean speeches.
The question is whether or not Bill opened that door with the intention of gigilo-ing the discount out of Mrs. Smallwood or not. It’s totally unclear, and a case could be made either way.
But I do think that, assuming it WAS his intention, that this makes clear that Bill is NOT above Lafayette-style manipulations. I still wouldn’t call it “evil” though… so much as sleazy. LOL.
And I will also say that, if that is the case, Bill NOT actually having sex with that woman really doesn’t excuse him, as the intent was still the same. He may have absolved himself by not doing the deed, and proclaiming his devotion to his “intended,” but I’m sure that Sookie would be no less appalled if he came out and said I negotiated a discount on your ring by showing off a little heavage. LOL.
It’s also worth noting that, if this is Bill’s forte, it makes sense that the Queen would have sent HIM to seduce Sookie. Aside from the obvious hometown connections, of course.
No pants. LOL That was my husband’s first reaction to the minisode, too. He said, “Oh my god is his junk hanging out?”
MAS, it looks like Bill’s M.O. is coming into focus.
Completely OT: Sonny, I just gave you a little shout out on the “Alan Ball hates Eric and favors Bill” thread over at FB.
OK! I’ll go check it out.
I just showed the minisode (and a couple of other scenes of both men) to a friend that has never watched TB (which, by the way, is finishing a deliver for class about media manipulation). After, I asked her whether where the good and bad one, and the protagonist and antagonist. She answered that the protagonist was Bill and so, the antagonist was Eric, whether he was good or bad. But that it was obvious that the bad guy on the serie was Bill.
I don’t watch tv usually so I don’t know what kind of stories are in fashion. But my friend told me that now there are many series that use the bad guy as the protagonist so that he can turn to the side of the light, lol. And that of course it would be, Bill, the protagonist, because he seems to be bad and his badass was attractive…
So, when people see in Bill is true personality, when if they may find it attractive (as a character), why BL see him as an angel?
Dwim, methinks your friend hasn’t seen enough–if she did, she would realize Bill is a sociopath. I doubt there will be any redemption for him. Death awaits Bill, just as it has for his alter egos.
Of course she didn’t lol. She might, though, depending on how is s3. She was thrilled when, after her comments (which I had asked for), I told her some of Bill interesting behaviour in both TB and the books.
I just wanted the see if someone, seeing “normal” Bill scenes, would be able to see his behaviour, theatrics and lies… I was curious on whether BL could be excused or not. And they can not.
[She answered that the protagonist was Bill and so, the antagonist was Eric, whether he was good or bad. But that it was obvious that the bad guy on the serie was Bill.]
Wow! This is really interesting, DW! Which episodes did she watch?
Yes, Bill is going to die. This is what Alan does with his protagonists.
As I’ve said before: Bill Compton = Nate Fisher = Lester Burnham. And this is one of my biggest concerns with True Blood, that we’re going to watch this boring scenario AGAIN. Someone needs to pry Mr Ball away from his fascination with this particular type of character and make him focus on something else for a change.
VL: She watched both minisodes, Royce kill, Bill given freedom by Lorena, the Magister and the the scene with Jessica’s family. We hadn’t much time and I couldn’t found where exactly were some scenes, I wanted both “better” and “worse” of both.
What? He killed Nate?? I haven’t yet finished seasson 1… But, can’t believe it… I loove when protagonists die, sad, but… Different, lol. I’m very much opposed to death penalty, but in fiction I love kills, lol… Hope he sends Bill to his final day, I hate him more every day.
See, I think Alan Ball might kill SOOKIE. She’s the one who– like Nate Fisher and Lester Burnham– serves as the cornerstone of the series, even if the rest of the ensemble outshines her at times.
I guess it’s silly to make projections like that though, so early on. But one thing is for sure– going by Six Feet Under, Nate might have been the “core” of the show, but David was the character who emerged as the real scene-stealer. That’s just my opinion, of course.
Anyway, Alan Ball never has clear protagonists or antagonists, in my experience, and all of his characters are deeply flawed– which is what makes them interesting, and at times, difficult to watch. I’ve wanted to strangle ALL of his characters at one time or another. I just had less tolerance for some than others… and I think that’s really a matter of personal taste.
MAS–I was trying to find our conversation about Weres on SVB the other day. Do you remember which thread it was on?
Pam gives lots of info about Eric and Godric on the s2 Blu-Ray. She says that Eric was much more than a man even when he was human and compares him to heroes with supernatural parentage. Godric killed his maker, but Russell could be granddad. She also mentioned that Godric’s maker branded him, so that could be a link with Russell.
It was in the comments of the True Blood Bus Ads post on Sookieverse Blog. (Poor SVB– the tangents we go on in those comments. LOL)
Anyway, here’s the link– our conversation starts fairly early up: http://sookieverseblog.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/true-blood-bus-ads/#comments
The Blu-Ray references you mention are killing me!!!! I can’t wait to see what the deal is here!!!!
MAS, you are so efficient. Thank you.
I’ll refrain from picking up that thread until you’ve seen it, and I’ve seen more of it. (I’m starting disc 3 tonight.)
You will not be disappointed; Godric’s backstory is juicy and detailed.
Renee, will you post summaries? Please please! I don’t have an HD TV or a Blue Ray player, so I’m hoping the commentaries will show up somewhere!
Well Kathy, maybe I won’t be watching disc 3 tonight after all. I’m dying to start discussing this stuff, so I think what I need to do is go back and summarize the character perspectives for my blog.
I should be able to get a post up tonight covering the first two eps. Look for the Eric and Grodric stuff late Friday night, though. That’s from ‘Never Let Me Go.’
Oh you’re welcome Renee! And I’ll echo Kathy in saying that you should DEFINITELY spill the goods. We don’t have a Blu-Ray player yet, and while we’re contemplating getting one now, chances are good that I won’t get a chance to see the extra features until Season 3 is already underway… so spoil away! LOL.
Hey Renee, if you want help transcribing the commentary, I’m willing to do some episodes. You shouldn’t have to do all the work.
Oh and does anyone understand the purpose of the FB – Blue Ray Live feed? I guess you get some easter eggs, and ‘gifts’ but I’m not to sure its worth it. I don’t exactly want to tell all my FB friends I’m watching TB, they get it enough from me already. lol.
Thanks Serena. Just pick a disc you want to do and email me
( ancientpythoness at gmail.com ). If anyone else want to transcribe character profiles and FYI clues or summarize commentaries, please do the same.
Sunny, I’m sorry to hijack your thread like this. Feel free to do the same at my place any ole time. ;~) Your tangets are some of the best, ever.
Ha! Don’t worry about it Renee, tangent away.
(loving your latest, btw. I’ll have time for a comment later)
Naked Eric ya’ll. NSFW, obviously.
http://trueblooditalia.forumfree.it/?t=48374093#entry398248663
Hi all. I probably shouldn’t post this here, kinda off the subject but didn’t know where else to put it….
There is a picture of Eric’s naked butt on True Blood Italy on Facebook. Goodness gracious! AND pictures of Bill and Sam’s dream sequence!
oh hey! one step ahead!! lol
Check above you EO! Here’s the link with Bill and Sam included.
http://www.trueblood-news.com/true-blood-spoiler-pics-from-season-3-oh-my-stars
holy gracious plenty.
Bill is more attractive in that pic with Sam, than any other I’ve seen him in…perhaps it’s the lighting..perhaps not!
World class butt. OMG, I’m so shocked that I can’t even type.
Sooo, no pants at ALL.
Just a smile while talking to Sook. And she looked.
Yes and that big broad muscular back mmmmmm
She MUST have looked!
OMG, and he’s a lot more beefed up than I thought! I was so afraid he would be too skinny! He’s perfect.
Welcome Freyja! *waves*
He is perfect. Sigh.
However I still can’t stop thinking he is standing in Royce. lol.
Well, color me surprised. but I do see the advantages of this scenario. : P
You have to wonder though why he’s leaving her down there like that.
Those thighs!!!
Hi, everyone. I came over here from SVB’s site . Love reading all the theories here! Was gonna respond to pennydreadful’s great post, but now that I’ve seen the nekkid pics of Eric, I’m at a complete loss for words. I feel a little queasy, in a good way, of course!
Anyway, keep up the great work, and um, thanks for the pictures! 
Hey Northern Soul, welcome!
I’m having a hard time concentrating myself!
I like your blog Sunny *waves*
And lovelovelove the new pics ggggrrrr 
I also look forward to see the new sex dream between Sam and Bill hehe
This is way way way off topic and it can be deleted if it’s inappropriate but I laughed my ass off at this http://www.trueblood-news.com/play-nice-in-the-true-blood-sandbox
What is it they say about saying one thing and doing another?
“6. No drunk posting – Everyone is guilty of this one (me too!)”
Personally, I abstain from all “recreational” substances so I’m feeling a little insulted here, lol, and I also think that if someone decides to publish something online while he is drunk it’s his goddamn right.
I also don’t think that post will change any of the commenting behaviour on the site. It just sounds ridiculous.
Internet: Serious business.
The thing that got my dander up was that the very same posters who attacked me personally for having an opinion are agreeing with every word.
Obviously these rules only apply to visitors and not to regulars, they can insult whoever they like.
Yeah, this stupid censorship pretty much proves my thesis in the ‘Rabid Fans of Vampire Bill Compton’ post.
*eyeroll* those crazy kids over there…
To Sarah. Yes what you say is true, the scene would not have worked. It was great to see Bill as his true smarmy self. I new as soon as I saw that ratty robe, he was up to no good. The whole scene did make me laugh for hours. I’m not as prickly as I may have sounded. So, shall we hoist a glass of something winey and enjoy a naked butt?
Wine and butts – let the party beginn
I only want to add that I can really understand your reaction. I am not older or divorced but being young, blond and tall I know what it means to be reduced to a stereotyp not only by men but also by some women.
{Pam gives lots of info about Eric and Godric on the s2 Blu-Ray. She says that Eric was much more than a man even when he was human and compares him to heroes with supernatural parentage. Godric killed his maker, but Russell could be granddad. She also mentioned that Godric’s maker branded him, so that could be a link with Russell.}
Wow, really??? This is very INTERESTING and very EXCITING!!!
Altough I still don’t like the idea of Eric being a Were. However, if it has to be then I’ll go along for the ride to see where they take it. I like more the idea of the Weres being royal guards, etc.
I had convinced myself that Eric was just going to be a friend of the pack and I was really smoking the Kool-aid the other day. Pammy really came through for me.
Well, it seems more possible that Eric WAS actually a werewolf than ever. And I think that would be KINDA AWESOME!!!
This bothers me for some reason and I can’t quite put my finger on why.
Eric being a were? I don’t like the idea at all.
Bothers me too. Isn’t it more likely he is a descendant of Odin? That would make his vendetta against Russell, if he indeed was around back then and in control of the weres or in alliance Fenrir. IDK. AB has a very specific look for the werewolves. Though I guess making Eric’s hair brown, might be a precursor to revealing that.
incomplete sentence…..
That would make his vendetta against Russell, if he indeed was around back then and in control of the weres or in alliance Fenrir…….understandable.
Well I don’t think Eric’s ACTUALLY a descendent of Odin, but I think they’re definitely setting up mythological parallels in his story. That’s why I was convinced that his father was killed by the wolf (who was actually a were-turned-vampire, Russell, assuming we’re right about him) and Eric is seeking vengeance against him.
But because Ulfric’s name means “ruler of the wolves” in Old Norse, we had wondered if it was possible that the King was actually a werewolf himself– which means Eric could be one too. He wore a wolf pelt in the Viking flashback, and his attack on Royce was about as “berserk” as you can get. And with Pam’s comments, now… there are lots of suggestive clues littered about.
But I suppose it’s possible, too, that Eric’s FATHER was a werewolf (possibly even a packleader) and his mother WASN’T. That doesn’t fit into what we know about werewolf structure in terms of taking a mate, and responsibility to the pack in terms of breeding. But it could explain why Ulfric’s pack may have eventually turned against him, if he was some type of werewolf leader. And the parallels to “mainstreaming” with vampires would be there, too.
Ulfric may have been rejecting tradition in his choice of wife and mother to his children, and it got him killed.
Umm… can’t wait for season 3!!!!!!
Then there is the scene in Eric’s flashback, where his buds say to him “we won’t leave you here to be eaten by wolves.” which insinuates to me that Eric is opposed to wolves, not one of them.
I like these parallels, MAS. This would also bring human Eric closer to his alter ego, Jason, the fairy who wasn’t.
Hmmm… or SOOKIE, for that matter, Renee!
Absolutely, but I think one of the purposes of the S3 flashback to Eric, the irresponsible skirt chasing heir apparent, is to compare him to Jason.
{Then there is the scene in Eric’s flashback, where his buds say to him “we won’t leave you here to be eaten by wolves.” which insinuates to me that Eric is opposed to wolves, not one of them.}
Serena, this is very interesting! I completely forgot they said that! I just assumed it meant they wouldn’t leave him alone so that the wolves, that roam at night, could eat him. Now I’m thinking, based on all the new theories, that they meant the opposing army!! lol
I don’t think Eric is a werewolf. From USA Today:
“Eric hates them,” says Skarsgard, covered with white makeup and accents of blood red during a break on the show’s L.A. set. “In his opinion, werewolves are very primitive, stupid, disgusting, not sophisticated. After a while, you’ll find out there’s a deeper reason he hates them.”
Unless he’s self-loathing of course.
Here’s the link..
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2010-05-28-Trueblood28_CV_N.htm
I don’t know– I’m thinking it could still be possible that his father was a werewolf but his mother wasn’t. And that the pack turned on his father and killed him because of that. I could see him having a personal grudge against werewolves, even if his father WAS one, after that.
MAS, it could also just be that Were’s were part of Ulric’s army. He wouldn’t necessarily have to be one in order to form an alliance with some of them.
So, I’m totally going to bring up my husband again (LOL!) as this man is my oracle and always snaps me back into focus when I think I’m losing my mind. He watched the Bill minisode online (since we probably won’t be around on Sunday to watch it on TV) and had some really cool things to say about it.
His first reaction, before the minisode was even over, was: “Bill, you cheapskate.” LOL. Not surprising. And then, when I asked him what he thought, he jokingly asked me if I had asked on my fangirl blogs where Bill’s actions would fall on the Fear/Love Scale. This was, of course, a reference to the featured actress’ notorious role in the best movie of all time, Donnie Darko.
But it got me thinking…
This movie is a modern cult classic– and if you haven’t see it you MUST, because it rocks! But given her well-known role in this movie, and the fact that the themes in True Blood most DEFINITELY correspond to some of Donnie Darko’s most prominent themes, it could very well be that Alan Ball wrote this minisode specifically FOR this actress (Beth Grant).
In Donnie Darko, she plays a gym/health teacher, who is a zealous follower of the much-hyped inspirational guru Jim Cunningham (played by the awesome Patrick Swayze). Jim Cunningham believes that all human actions are reducible to fear and love, and that a life lived according to the “Lifeline” is the only path to virtue and happiness. Basically, he’s a fundamentalist in New Age clothing. LOL. And Beth Grant’s character is the BIGGEST hypocrite of the lot.
She sanctimoniously derides Donnie Darko’s mom as a “lost sheep” for not being a follower, and is generally an grating pain in the ass. In fact, when news gets out that Jim Cunningham is actually a pedophile, she spearheads a crusade to free him… not believing, natch, that her beloved and virtuous leader might actually be a corrupt, hypocritical douchebag.
There is one scene in particular (which I will link to below) where Beth Grant’s character asks Donnie Darko to place a scenario on the Fear/Love Lifeline, and he tells her to shove the exercise up her ass, because people just AREN’T that simple… and in fact, the overall message is that whenever people DO view things in these black and white terms, it only paves the way to hypocrisy. A truth that is illustrated by Jim Cunningham’s fall, and the pursuant reaction of his most enthusiastic apostle.
Anyway, the fact that Alan Ball PURPOSEFULLY cast Beth Grant is further evidenced by the fact that she also had a cameo in ‘Six Feet Under’… as none other than a religious zealot who gets run over in traffic when she mistakes the accidental release of a bunch of blow up dolls from a delivery truck as The Rapture. LOL!!!
Here are both (AWESOME) clips for your viewing pleasure. It may mean nothing, but these scenes are worth a watch anyway! (And my husband is the best! W00t!)
Donnie Darko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_puc8ojNctA
Six Feet Under (Epi: In Case of Rapture): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LXuNpF6NVg
I wanted to add, for anyone who isn’t going to watch the clip, that Donnie’s mock scenario in this exercise was: Someone finds a wallet, and returns it, but keeps the money inside. Negative (fear)… or positive (love)?
This scenario is SO parallel to the nuances of Bill’s minisode that I almost can’t believe that the casting choice WASN’T deliberate.
MAS, I haven’t watched the Donnie Darko clip yet but I did watch the Six Feet Under “Rapture” clip. It was funny as hell!!!! First of all, that whole scene was pure genius – yes, even down to the bumper sticker. lol I’ll be honest, it really made me appreciate TB (and AB’s creativity) all the more. It also made me realize that we are all on the right on track when trying to decipher TB’s symbolism, etc. Thanks for the clip! I’ll watch the other one today because I’m really curious about the points you made regarding the actress, AB, and the fear/love scale. Very interesting! By the way, I love how your husband teases you about the blogs. Hahaha! Tell him we all know the truth – that he is secretly in love with Eric too and therefore is now an honorary member of the fangirl blogs.
Hi all – I stumbled on this blog while lurking at ericnorthman-dot-net (my daily guilty pleasure as it has some truly amazing fanfic). First of all, let me say thank you for the (unintentional) warning about The Nest. I’ve been visiting various SVM/TB forums in my search for updates and fics, but a quick visit there has convinced me that it isn’t somewhere that I’ll be going back to! If having a differing opinion and voicing it makes you a ban-worthy troll then I think I’ll save everyone some time and just go and sit under my bridge to wait for some billygoats lol.
Secondly, I watched the Bill minisode and, to be frank with you, it creeped me out. What a blatant abuse of sexuality and glamour on Bill’s part! Not only did he take advantage of the saleslady’s attraction to him, he also played upon it – sitting closer than necessary, not belting his robe and (if you watch carefully) even sliding his hand so that it brushed her thigh! He played her like a hooked fish, and then glamoured her to bring her into his net. These are not the actions of a gentleman, and no amount of southern charm can or should gloss over that. If (and we don’t know) Bill then glamoured her to believe that she gave him the ring at cost in return for sexual favours then that makes it even worse, as it opens up another unpleasant aspect. In the real world she would , at best, made to pay the difference between the cost price and sale price of the ring. Then add on the fact that we see that she babbles when nervous and you can easily imagine her telling all that (she believes) happened to her boss when she is called in to explain her actions. That would DEFINATELY get her fired, and not only would she lose her job but also her good name and reputation. She would be seen as not only untrustworthy but also a desperate fangbanger, and no amount of (fake) memories of hot vamp sex would make up for being viewed with pity, disgust and scorn. The final insult was Bill telling her (while she was glamoured, so she would believe it as gospel) that she deserved what was coming to her. Way to go, Bill – not only do you act in a manner that will cost a woman her job and also make it extremely unlikely that she’d get another of any worth (especially when any potential employer asks the jewellry store why she was let go and find it was a sex-for-discount scenario) but to also throw in a cruel little stab to her already fragile post-divorce self esteem. That was possibly the lowest blow of all. “I cheated you but you made me. You deserved it. It was your own fault and everything that happens as a result of this is your own fault, not mine. “. Very nasty and very twisted.
Also, I think that possibly the saleswoman was portrayed in such a strongly stereotypical “desperate divorcee” manner to make Bill’s abuse of his power over her (as an emotionally fragile and bruised person) more sinister and underline his manipulative and opportunistic nature. Unfortunately, I think this backfired as it made it too easy for people to poke fun at her, overlook the mind-f*ck that Bill perpertrated and justify his behaviour, almost as if she should be grateful for what he did to her because she was just some washed up old cougar (gosh, I despise that term!) who had no hope of getting any ‘hotness’ in her life in any other way. A horrible, horrible case of “blame the victim” mentality.
Finally, (and I am sorry for going on so much) I watched S1 and didn’t warm to Bill. I watched S2 and didn’t warm to Bill. You know why? Because I once dated a classic Bill-type of guy, and the damage they do to your self-worth while smiling sweetly into your eyes and telling you its for your own good isn’t worth any amount of great sex, whether its real or glamour, human or vamp.
Wow, awesome post Chat_Noir! Welcome to TBU and I hope we see you often.
Very Very well said!
That was a really great post Chat_Noir. I agree with you in everyway, Bill knew exactly what he was doing, and exploided that poor desperate lady.
Also this blog and and http://sookieverseblog.wordpress.com/ is the best if you want to speculate the books and the show.
Much like you I didn’t warm to Bill due to the similarities to my first boyfriend (and unfortunately husband). He reminded me of him a little in S1 of TB but when I picked up the books it was like “This is Steve with fangs”, instant dislike. Unfortunately I didn’t move on to a 6’4 blonde adonis but at least I feel good about myself now.
[and no amount of (fake) memories of hot vamp sex would make up for being viewed with pity, disgust and scorn]
I’m with you on this because I think that the false memories implanted by glamour are fuzzy and confused.
If Bill glamoured into her a memory of sex, she would have the feeling that she had sex with him, but she wouldn’t be able to recall any detail. Is it worthy?
Anyway, I guess this minisode was intended to be hilarious to the eyes of the largest part of the audience, though it shows some additional clues of what Bill really is and how easy is for him to manipulate people. If you want, you can clearly see them otherwise you just laugh at the poor desperate lady.
{The final insult was Bill telling her (while she was glamoured, so she would believe it as gospel) that she deserved what was coming to her.}
This is an EXCELLENT point, ChatNoir!!
Hi guys, I just want to say thank you for being so kind about my rambling post and the warm welcome. I’ve become a little wary of doing anything more than lurking at other SVM/TB sites as there are some crazy, crazy fangirls out there, and it has come as a welcome relief to find somewhere that you can express an opinion, have a debate and not be burnt at the stake for it, lol. I hope to post again some time in the future, and want to thank you all again for your kind words and the recommendation for sookieverse, which is going in my favourites list now
xxx
Your post was excellent Chat Noir. Glad you have joined in our discussion here and over at Sookieverseblog.
the comments from pro-bill people trying to justify this are hilarious:
——————————————–
Pro Bill comment 1.I thought this clip fun! Who knows if Bill actually got it for cost!! He was playing! Enjoy!
My Response: He didnt look like he was playing to me. Why would he tell her to sell it to him for cost under a glamour if he was playing? Because she will do what he wants if he glamoured her, “he was just playing” is not an argument. There is nothing fun about manipulating a woman like that just because she hit on you a little.
—————————————-
Pro Bill comment 2: BOY, ARE THERE SOME SNARKY PEOPLE OUT IN WEB-LAND ! EQUAL RIGHTS, RAPE, PUNISHMENT FOR MORAL LAPSES ? REALITY CHECK, FOLKS. THIS IS A FICTIONAL SHOW, AND BILL IS A VAMPIRE. SO MUCH HATEFULNESS, AND MORAL JUDGEMENT ARE A BIT MISPLACED. THE MINI EPISODE IS FUNNY, AND SHOWS A WILEY VAMPIRE USING HIS “SKILLS” ON A HUMAN WOMAN. HE PROBABLY COULDN’T RESIST, BECAUSE HUMANS ARE VERY EASILY SWAYED BY A VAMPIRE, AND IT WOULD AMUSE HIM TO INFLUENCE HER. I WOULD ABSOLUTELY SEXUALY OBJECTIFY BILL, NOT BECAUSE HE’S A VAMPIRE, BUT BECAUSE HE IS DELICIOUS ! GOOD ‘OLE LUST ! LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE, AND ENJOY THE SEXY VAMPIRES.
My Response: I dont want to “lighten up” about the obvious con-job pulled simply to get a CHEAP ring for Sookie. IF he values her so much then why couldn’t he just get her a ring that didn’t have to be obtained from a con job? Sure he is handsome and Bill knows it but instead of taking her attraction for what is was, Bill justified his actions by convincing himself that Ms. Smallwood deserved it because she was being predjudice…quite the contrary, she was actually being open to him and was even doing him a service by coming by at night. As for the…Bill is a vampire argument…Bill fans like you do not usually use that to justify Eric’s behavior, only Bill’s. None of you Bill Lovers used to wiley vampire using his skills to justify any of Eric’s behavior toward Sookie or anybody else either. As for the “amusement” factor…you didn’t think it was acceptable for eric to get amusement out of bill’s reaction to the bullet sucking incident.
sorry i just hate these unintelligent remarks made by a lot of bill lovers
We view and respond to fiction with our own moral values. It is a reflection of how we view and respond to real life. Would it be ok with that lady if a sexy con artist hypnotized her mother and bilked her out of her life savings? Even if she nervously ‘came on’ to him first? Apparently it would and she should just ‘lighten up’ if it happens.
Katya – I respect your ability to stand up for what you know is right. You can’t necessarily change someone’s view but you can’t back down either. Not for something you believe in. Fictional shows still have a basis in reality even if they’re about supernatural creatures. Right is right and deception is wrong… period. Let’s just hope this ProBill commentator doesn’t have any children.
not to mention I cannot believe someone could be oblivious to Bill’s sliminess in that minisode. gaaah!
{While Jessica confronts her father–Pam: Jessica is what we call a very unhappy accident. The magister knows how to hit a vampire right where it hurts, so when Bill killed Long Shadow, we knew his punishment would be, shall we say, thorough. Nothing would cut to Bill Compton’s tragic tortured core more than to make a vampire, and, in my experience, good little Christian girls doing naughy things at night is a no brainer. Throw a rock in any town in America, and you’ll find some little plaid skirted upstart doing the dirty deep in a dark corner or sneaking out to some lame kegger. So the magister’s henchman threw a rock, and whala, Miss Jessica Hamby.}
Sunny, did you see this on Renee’s site? This reminded me of you – it validates something you said long ago about the reason the Magister chose Jessica specifically as Bill’s punishment. He knew that Jessica would be a handful and would give him hell as his “child”. She was already a handful to her parents when she was human and you are what you were once turned. Interesting isn’t it!!
Serena and Renee, amazing job!!!
@ vikinglover- that is a really good point that I have never considered before.
@sunnynala- thanks for the welcome. I really love your blog and the comments you make on other blogs. Your insight is intelligent and insightful.
Thank you, Katya!
There is a parallel between the tribunal scene in which Jessica is turned and the scene in which Bill begs for release from Lorena. Of course he pleads to be put into the silver chained coffin because Bill knows that as QSA’s operative she would have released in short order.
Bill: If you want to torture anyone, torture me.
Magister: Torture…yes. I don’t think so. I could show you torture…if you like.
(Now watch Bill’s priceless expression when he realizes that unlike, Lorena with his empty threats of suicide, the Magister has every intention of taking him at his word. Let’s not forget that he was trained in the Spainish Inquisition…so you can bet your sweet bottom, the Magister knows all about torture. It’s as if he is shocked and horrified that that his smooth talking bs has completely failed him. )
Bill: No…no. I was wrong to speak.
After he is forced to admit the truth to Sookie by Jessica’s appearance, Bill says that the reason he hadn’t ever turned anyone previously was that he couldn’t bear to inflict the suffering that he felt at being turned. As we’ve seen from “Hardhearted Hannah” Bill has no qualms about inflicting either emotional or physical suffering. No the REAL reason that Bill hasn’t fulfilled his maker duties is that he just doesn’t want the responsibility. In the same Blu Ray commentary that Renee posted, Pam says that Bill leaving Lorena after 70 years is considered very unusual. So having a progeny is a very LONG term commitment. Perhaps, Bill is afraid that Jessica is going to cramp his carefree grifter style?
When Jessica arises, Bill makes a very noble sounding speech (he really does talk a good game, doesn’t he?) about how sorry he is that he’s ruined her life. All of which is belied by the fact that he unceremoniously dumps her off at Fangtasia’s much in the same way he would dump an unwanted puppy at the pound. He’s insinuated to Sookie that Eric and Pam are evil (as all other vampires are…outside of St. Bill, the only noble vamp and last moral man in the universe)…so they seem a very poor choice as foster-parents if they are truly as vile as he says and if he’s at all concerned for Jessica’s welfare. Yes, Bill is so broken up about ruining Jessica’s life that in the two weeks that she is with Eric, Bill never bothers to check and see how she’s doing. It’s as she is someone else’s untidy mess to deal so why should he be bothered giving her a second thought.
Interestingly in the scene, where Jessica is returned to Bill …he is playing “Hardhearted Hannah” on the piano (as someone else pointed out.) In S1E12, we don’t comprehend the significance of this particular piece of music. However, in hindsight we understand it’s just another example of that Bill Compton hasn’t changed…he’s still the same old Bill.
“(Now watch Bill’s priceless expression when he realizes that unlike, Lorena with his empty threats of suicide, the Magister has every intention of taking him at his word. Let’s not forget that he was trained in the Spainish Inquisition…so you can bet your sweet bottom, the Magister knows all about torture. It’s as if he is shocked and horrified that that his smooth talking bs has completely failed him. )”
About this I have to make a point. Spanish Inquisition was the less monstruous of all Europe. And so, they tortured and killed the lesser. Yes they did torture too, but not in all cases, the normal way of learning the truth was by helping the accused with a layer. Tough it all depended if you were thought as inocent and the opposite side had to change that, or if you “were” guilty and you had to show your innocence. Also the prisons of the Inquisition where much better than the common prisons.
Spain during XVI century was an important center of humanism in the renaisance period and a lot of universities where built as well as a lot of artist where brought or created since then. Since XV century a lot of people opposed the inquisition and so there were done many laws to prevent foolish and false sentences. Most people went free after the accusation, some people got a punishment, whether physical, monetary or jail to go free after, only very very few people got killed. Those two kings in that century were very well educated, intelligent and believers of God, they wouldn’t do truly bad for fun, it wouldn’t get them to any good place.
The black legend in Spain was advertising by some countries that wanted territories from Spain and people to leave the roman church, and in those countries as germany and the Neetherlands the inquisition or their own goverments by civil law did much more damage. If they were so bad and Spain was thought to do worse… Wonder what they would think Spain was… But at that time Spanish people still fought for their rights, unlike now.
If you read a bit of Spanish society in that time you will find how ilogical would be an stupid church. There where accusations, but never got over that. In all time only 56 people where killed for witchcraft in 125000 accusations, when in the north those were thousands. Inquisition was mostly done to convert jewish and muslims to cristianity in orther to mantein an united empire (the church was for Spain what the Latin was for Rome), we had many languages, still have.
Sorry, it makes me mad to see how people believes we were so foolish when Spain was pretty advance in that time, and seeing that in TB… But you can delete the comment, as it doesn’t really make a point on the discussion.
Mmm… It has just come to my mind that maybe, just maybe, if it’s really said that the magister was a Spanish inquisitor, maybe he is going to be more fair than he might seem like. As long as we show the punishments weren’t that bad. In the books, the punishment for the one that had drunk from the human of another got killed when in TB he just got his fangs taken, and thouse grow again in not too much time. And for Bill, I can seem fair that if he had killed a vampire he should make one instead, and Jessica is beautiful and is not stupid, they had chosen her, and I don’t think they would just choose her to make Bill a bad time but to create a nice vampire.
Dwimordene- Allow me to apologize. It was not my intention to insult the nation of Spain, its history, or its people. So if anything in my post gave you that impression, I am very sorry. My point, which I may have done a poor job of expressing, was that the Magister is not swayed (as Lorena is) by Bill’s self-serving speeches.
As sinister as the Magister may seem, I believe that he is an official doing a very necessary job. Vampire standards of justice are much sterner than ours. Without some kind of authority to whom they are responsible, vampires are likely to become a law onto themselves and their society would soon descend into anarchy.
Again, I apologize for any unintended offense.
Pennydreadful
I know, and it’s me whom is sorry for my response. I know you didn’t intend to offend at all as you just named it, which is not even you but AB, lol… It’s just that I had being hearing about all the black legend lately and I was already boiling at it… So I couldn’t stop myself to defend it against common knowledge, and I’m not patriotic at all, I’m quite fed up with Spain at the moment, lol. It was not really refered to you the answer but more like for general view. We spanish love to critizied ourselves but don’t let other do it to us, lol.
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